132 



THE CIVIL ENGINEER AND ARCHITECT'S JOURNAL. 



[April, 



the new system of poor laws recently introduced into that country, then he 

 was convinced that even if it did not work immediate harm, it would not 

 work any permanent ^'ood. The employment, which arose from the natural 

 course of events, and from (he spontaneous application of capital, would con- 

 fer more permanent advantage upon Ireland than the application of countless 

 millions, which would only give employment for a time to the people of 

 Ireland. 



Mr. Spring Rico followed in .a lame-duck speech, in which he 

 called upon the House to persevere in the erroneous system, which, 

 for the last forty years, they had adopted ; and hccause they had 

 hitherto spent so much money on Ireland, he called upon them to dis- 

 burse more. He would have done better to have shown what had 

 been the industrial and moral results of this system, to have jjointed 

 out that while Ireland had been deprived of its enerjry, and induced 

 to depend upon the government leaning-stock, that .she has only 400 

 miles of canals instead of 2,000, and that she is in arrear in all public 

 works. The right honourable gentleman very wisely confessed that 

 he did not wisli to defend the Caledonian and Rideau canals, which 

 his colleague had so unnecessarily conjured up before the presence of 

 the house, as if to call witnesses from the dead to expose the incapa- 

 city of the government and the inanity of their strongest promises. 

 With regard to temporary employment, he observed, that he be- 

 lieved 



That temporary employment of such a character would be produc- 

 tive of more evil than good to Ireland. He believed that the temporary em- 

 ployment which the formation of the Caledonian canal created in Scotland 

 had not done any good to that country. He had been informed that it had 

 rather introduced into Scotland a number of Irish labourers, than given any 

 additional employment to Scottish labourers. 



Mr. O'Conmll e.Kpressed his sentiments in a rambling speech, rather 

 at variance with his original sentiments. We can, however, in consi- 

 deration of his anxiety to pocket so much money for Ireland, for- 

 give his inconsistency, but that does not induce us to place any confi- 

 dence in his opinions. Mr. O'Connell is not Aristides, or he might 

 acknowledge that, although a measure may be very advantageous to 

 his country, it may be very unjust. He however enforced the import- 

 ance of private enterprise, by pointing out tliat, in the case of Mr. 

 Bianconi, he had received no support from government. Mr. O'Connell, of 

 course, urged the example of Belgium and other states, and proved his 

 knowledge of the subject by asserting that there is not a freer consti- 

 tulum ill existence than that of Belgium .' He forgot, liowcver, to 

 allude to one feature of government administration of public works ; 

 that in time of war governments become incapacitated, and aug- 

 ment, by all means, the revenues derived from these sources, while 

 private enterprise has been so deadened, that, like poor Smike, it can 

 never get out of its leading-strings. 



Mr. H. Grattaa made a noble exhibition of Irish patriotism ; he 

 said that — 



They did not wish in Ireland for English money ; all they said was," Give 

 us back some part of the sums drained from us by absenteeism." He could 

 prove, by documents which he held in his hand, that the amount spent out 

 of Ireland in this way was not less than 273,000?. per annum. This was 

 what the Irish wished for; but if they could get that, they would be content 

 with the assistance of government in the undertakings now under dis- 

 cussion. 



Thus, admitting this calculation of the loss by absenteeism to be 

 correct, and making no allowance for its annual diminution, nor for 

 the difference made up in England by agricultural jiroiluce exported, 

 Mr. Grattan very kindly, by way of instalment, proposes to take ten 

 years' annuity in advance, or, instead of 273,000/. per year, 2,500,000/. 

 As a part of the compensation rjucstion, this gentleman consistently 

 concludes by saying that — 



It was indispensable to have English capital. The English capitaliit would 

 lose nothing by the outlay ; while that outlay, at the .same time, would repay 

 the Irish for some part of what they had suffered. 



Mr. Lucas called upon Government to come to some decision as to 

 the two western lines, which, however despised, were ready to carry out 

 their plans with their own money. This gentleman proposed that if 

 government %vere determined upon the general job system, that they 

 should require that one half of tiie outlay should be disbursed by the 

 landowners of the line, and the government expenditure thus reduced. 

 Mr. Lucas lauded the arrangements of the French government: — 



France alsj was iu advance of us in this field, having found means of 

 obtaining security for the public against those effects of monopoly which so 

 many here complained of. In every act (if he might so speak) which passed 

 the Chambers, he wa5 told there was a provision inserted for imposing upon the 

 the company a maximum of faros— that was to say, they were forbidden to 

 exceed in their charges from 20 to 25 per cent, over and above a reniiuicraiiiig 

 price. Fur instance, if 7s. would barely defray the e.vpenscs of carri.ngc, they 

 were unable to ask more than about 9s. for their fare. 



This certainly appears at first sight a useful and economical provision ; 

 but nothing in its operations can be more injurious, for the maximnin 

 adopted in France is so low that while few undertakings can keep u|) to 

 if, even those which do, offer no inducement for the furtlier prosecu- 

 tion of such designs. While in England, however the public may appear 

 at lirst to suffer, the large dividends obtained act as a stimulus even for 

 tlie formation of non-productive undertakings, and this is the true 

 cause of the great number of canals and other works in England, and 

 their paucity elsewhere. Mr. Lucas might also have told the House 

 that the Frencli Chambers rejected last year the principle of govern- 

 ment administration, and that so far from this principle having 

 made progress, it received a check. 



Mr. VVyse wished to know why the line proposed should stop at 

 Clonmel and go into Waterford '? 



Mr. \V. Roche inferred that the expenditure in Ireland, in the way 

 of improvements, had met with most abundant returns, and he relied 

 upon the increase of traffic which must result from the puomotion of 

 public works. Indeed the jobationists, in their ridiculous and variable 

 calculations of traffic too often forget its certain increase, but treat it 

 like ore raised from the mine, as if it were independent of the gold 

 which is to be extracted from it. 



Mr. Joseph Hume delivered a quantity of his usual twaddle, in which 

 he appeared very much in the positionof a tame tiger, which is expected 

 to exhibit its ferocious propensities, and is yet kept in order by a sop in 

 the pan. He vibrated like a pendulum, between his old iiotieiis and 

 his anomalous Irish position, and a most strange harlequinade was the 

 result. Among other things he confessed that the house was for the 

 first time called upon to undertake a general work for a mercantile 

 speculation, and it behoved them to ascertain well to what extent the 

 plan was to be carried. Among the useful matter which could be 

 extracted from his soporification, heassured the house from his personal 

 experience that Belgium was ne example to this country, for instead of 

 government administration being admitted as a fixed principle it was 

 only [adopted on an emergency, and tliat most of the state .works in 

 America were executed with English capital, and that consequently it 

 was quite different in this country which supplied the money to itself. 

 He believed also that England had hitherts been burthened by Ireland, 

 and not as Mr. Grattan said, was indebted to her. 



Sir Robert Inglis said : — 



As one who took also into consideration the interests of England, he should 

 he glad to learn from the Hon. Me.iiber for Dublin, if he should succeed in 

 obtaining a repeal of the union between the two countries, what security would 

 be given for the repayment of the proposed advance. (Hear, hear, and a 

 laugh.) If there should be distinct legislatures, it was natural to expect that 

 the finance department of the two countries would be separate. In that case, 

 he should like to know what security this country would have for the repay- 

 ment of the money, when the new Parliament should be sitting in College- 

 green I 



To this i\Ir. O'Connell replied that he would give him liis own. 



Sir Edward Knatclibull observed, that he very much feared that as 

 to the security offered by the learned Member for Dublin, that when 

 the matter came to be considered in Ireland, some flaw would be found 

 by wliich the engagement would be considered void, and, as he had said, 

 not one penny of it woidd be repaid. 



Mr. Slaney showed the advantages of Ireland as to the price of labour, 

 by stating that men were glad to get employment for 8fA, Id., and even 

 as low as bd. per day. 



Sir George Strickland deprecated the government interference in 

 railways ; and said that if tliey did this in imitation of France and Bel- 

 guim, he did not see why they might not be called upon to imitate 

 tlieni in other respects, by setting up monopolies in particular trades. 

 All government speculations in public works had been failures; they 

 had proved so in roads and canals in Scotland and Canada, and 

 woidd equally fail in Ireland. 



. Lord Sandou remarked, that while agricultur.il produce was depended 

 iipoa as tiatfiC in Ireland, experience had proved a contrary result in Eng- 

 land. There were many works of great public utility which could be carried 

 on in Ireland, by the aid of government, with much more advantage to the 

 country than railroads. Some few years ago it was proposed to grant a sum 

 of from 150,000/. to 300,000/. a year for opening the resources of ten counties 

 of Iieiaud, by improving the navigation of the Shannon, but the Chancellor 

 of the Tjxehequer threw every obstacle in the way of the grant, and now he 

 suppoifed the present very large sum without any thing like the same pros- 

 pect that its application would be successful. If government wished to 

 improve the r. sources of Ireland, let them extend its water communications — 

 let them give their aid in opening the navigation of the Suite, the Barrow, and 

 the Shannon, and he was sure that the house would not be backward in 

 afibrding the necessary pecuniary aid ; b:it he did not think that it ought to 

 support an experiment arising out of the mania for railroads. Unless the 

 prcsv_'Ut phui was part of a whole scheme for carrying on railroads by govern- 

 ment aid iu all the British islands, he thought they ought not to take this step 



