16 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTt UK. 



86 Auyut, 1919.] 



MR. ALIIIKT BDCKLR. 



[Conlunted. 



6004. Assuming all thov cvwt* hare to be addod 

 to the figures you hare <ju..u . nue it would show the 

 position to be even more difficult than these figures 

 suggest? That is so. 



6506. These figures hardly suggest that the industry 

 is a profitable undertaking, do theyP Yes, I think 

 80s. an acre is a fair pi 



6506. You consider that a fair profit t I think 

 so. 



6607. Do you not think farmers must have been 

 making considerably more than that if thoy have been 

 able to increase their capital to the extent that 

 they now have doubled the amount per acre that they 

 did when they started? They have only the same 

 anumnt of stock, the difference is that it is worth 

 double. I, for instance, have no more stock on my 

 farm than I had in pre-war times but it is probably 

 worth double now. 



6608. You have your weekly outgoings which must 

 require a certain amount of capita] to enable you to 

 meet them, ami therefore in that respect your capital 

 would have to be increased, would it not? If your 

 wages bill is double each week it means that you have 

 to pay out double and therefore your floating capital 

 will have to be doubled? I hope wo do not pay 

 wages out of capital. We pay them out of the re- 

 turn we get from our produce our milk and BO forth. 



'. ^ou must capitalise your farm to start with? 

 Y 



WIO. Your stock is more or less fixed, but there is 

 i 1 floating capital which is necessary, and I suggest 

 to you that farmers have done so well during the last 

 few years that they have been a!>le to double their 

 capital, and in many coses to buy their farms at a 



high price. That is evidence, is it not, that they 

 must have made more than the nominal amount 

 which you suggest here and which would be reduced 

 if the cost of hedging and ditching and road-making 

 nnd all the other costs are added to it? The hedging 

 and ditching arc not very serious items. 

 V.ll. Still they all count up?- 1 ! 

 ."."ill 1 . Do you not think it is possible for your Asso- 



n to help us in respect to supplying us with 

 some balance sheets as to actual figures and costs, 

 and so on, so that we can get both sides? I can ask 

 them, if you like. 



1. I would like to suggest to you that the 

 absence of any real information will make it difficult 

 for the nation to be persuaded of the necessity of 

 giving guarantees? Yes. 



6514. Do you know of any difficulty that is special 

 to the industry which might be worthy of considera- 

 tion from the point of view of organisation or 

 administration apart from the question of prices? 

 I think the question of security of tenure is one of 

 the chief difficulties. I think that the farmer ought 

 to have greater security of tenure than he has at 

 present, because as things ore I do not consider that 

 he gpts the full benefit of what he has put into the 

 land when he leaves his farm. I know an old valuer 

 who once said that a man can go on to a farm and 

 form it well for three years and can get as much com- 

 pensation when ho leaves as a roan who has farmed 

 hi* farm well for 30 years. Thnt must be wrong. If 

 a farmer has improved the letting value of his farm 

 by lOt. an aero, as many farmers have done, surely 



entitled (,, compensation for that, whereas he 

 gets turned out for some reason or another, and the 



.nip, -nsation he gets is the manurial value for 

 the previous three years. 



that the lack of trans- 

 port ),.i< a be-iring ujion it?- Yes, I think that mu. h 

 ought to Ix. done in that respect, collecting and d. 

 livering milk, and so forth. 



Ml 6. If a Ivettcr system of transport o\-olvcd out 

 of this new legislation as to ways and communications 

 that would !> helpful to the. industry- I'ndoul.i 



.i any idea as to what proportion i,t 

 farmers suggeiit^l Schedule f) for the purpose- of In 

 come Tax a* against Schedule H - I do nob know of 

 any ra..-, m our district, The question of Income 

 Tax is on.- thing I would like, to say a few words upon. 

 I know it will be suggested that 'the farmer has the 



same opportunity as other business people of pre- 

 senting their accounts, but many farmers have neither 

 he ability to keep accounts which would 

 satisfy a Surveyor of Income Tax. and I think to be 

 assessed at the present time at double our rent for 

 Income Tax is very unfair. 



5518. You think that double the rent is not a fair 

 basis? I do. 



6519. Will it surprise you to know that farmers 

 have stated that rather than have to pay on their 

 profits they would sooner continue that method;' 

 There may be some who think so, but I am certain 

 that is not the- general opinion in our district. 



5520. Would it be true to say that there is about 

 1 per cent, of farmers paying on profits and that the 

 others are paying on double the rent? It may be 

 so, but it is because of the very fact that they have 

 not got books to present. 



5521. You would not suggest if those happen to be 

 the proportions that that is the proportion of farnu rs 

 who fail to keep books or accounts:' I do not know. 

 There are very few farmers that I know who keep 

 books that would satisfy a Surveyor of Income Tax. 



5522. In regard to wages, your industry is rather 

 restricted by the minimum wage that has "been fixed!' 

 No, we do not object so much to the wage, as to the 

 hours. I wish that to be clearly understood. 



552.3. You are not really seriously disturbed by the 

 minimum wage, are you, because you are paying 

 a)M)\-e it? No, we do not object to the minimum 



i. Mr. Walker: In reply to a previous question 

 you stated that you were paying your men of special 

 I . a week with house and perquisites? 

 Yes. 



5525. Would you state what those perquisites arc? 

 Free house, a pint of milk a day, with potatoes, 

 what they may require. 



5526. Nothing else? No; I believe in some cases 

 they get coals. 



5527. They do not pay 3s. a week for their rent? 

 No. 



5528. So that the 52s. is a cash wage? Yee. 



5529. They draw that every week? Yes that is 

 in the case of the cowman; he is the highest paid 

 man. 



6530. What do you pay your labourers? I have a 

 horseman at 42s., with free house and milk and 

 potatoes, the same as the cowman, but he is not a 

 very first-rate man. 



5531. You have not thought it right to apply for 

 a permit if he is not a first-rate man? He cannot 

 stack and thatch, and that sort of thing, but he is 

 quite capable of doing a day's work. 



5532. Anyhow, the 52s. is a cash wage? That is 

 so. 



6533. You admit that these figures here are esti- 

 mates? Yes. 



5534. Do you not think, in regard to the 70s. 

 guarantee which you mention in paragraph 1, that tin- 

 first essential is to know the normal cost of pro- 

 duction? I 'do not think that we are quite living 

 in normal times yet. 



.V>:i. r >. Take the average cost of production ? Th at 

 is what we have attempted to arrive at. 



5536. That is how you reach your 70s. P Yos, if 

 onr average cost of production did not come to so 

 much as 70s. we are still asking for that just to leave 

 us a small profit. 



. r ir>.'!7. Which varies, of course, on the estimates you 

 submit? That is so. 



In paragraph t? you refer t" the farmers suffer- 

 ing from a shoring- of lnl.our, and that they cannot 

 ;re( tlie Iii-s| out of their land, the larger fanner 

 position than the smaller one, 

 in take advantage of up-to-dato 

 maehiiieryP Yes. 



11 thought of any method I,y which 

 the small inati might he helped wherel.y he MX 

 the use of up-to-date machinery? Small fields are 

 la for tractors and that kind of machinery. 

 I :nn not dealing so much with small fields 

 I am with Hmall fnrmers? Small farmers, as a 

 rule, have small fields. 



