MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



19 



26 August, 1919.] 



MR. E. C. BOURNE. 



[Continued. 



" From these tables it will be seen that oil the 

 first rise of wages the percentage increase iu labour 

 cost slightly exceeds that iu wages. This is due to 

 the hours worked before the war being uiieconoini- 

 cally long. In 1918, wheii wages were raised and 

 hours shortened, the percentage increase iu labour 

 cost slightly exceeds the percentage rise in wages, 

 but in this case two hours' overtime at lOd. per 

 hour have been added to the labourer's wage. In 

 1919, when the recent change took place, the increase 

 in the labour cost exceeds the rise of wages by 18 per 

 cent. If the proposed shortening of hours takes 

 place in 1920, the increase in labour cost will exceed 

 the increase in wages by 19-63 per cent., even though 

 an addition of three hours' overtime at Is. per hour 

 has been made to the labourer's wage to enable the 

 total of 638 hours' \york per week to be performed 

 by 12 men. If another man is employed instead of 

 working overtime, the increase iu labour cost over 

 the rise of \\ages is 36-56 per cent. 



" It may be noted as a matter of interest that the 

 percentage increase in labour costs is at present 

 practically the same as the percentage rise in the 

 value of wheat, but that if the proposed change of 

 hours be carried into effect the increase in labour 

 cost will exceed the rise in value of wheat by 20-22 

 per cent. 



" It is impossible to accelerate the rate of agricul- 

 tural operations, as these are largely governed by 

 the working pace of the horses, neither is it possible 

 in most cases to obtain additional labour owing to 

 shortage of cottages." 



[This concludes the evidence-in~rhief.] 



'I'lt'^i. Chni rum it : May I ask for whom you appear, 

 and what is your interest in connection with agricul- 

 ture? My interest really is that of having been con- 

 nected with farming for many years and intending to 

 take up farming myself. 



5566. Do you represent any body of any sort? No, 

 I u in perfectly independent. 



5567. You are not a farmer? Not at present. 



5568. What experience have you had at all in agri- 

 culture? My experience has been partly limited to 

 working for the Government during the war partly 

 in Kngland and partly in France, and since I have 

 been demobilised managing my father's farm at home 

 in Herefordshire. 



5569. In what respect have you been working for 

 the Government? In assessing the damage i-au^c;! to 

 the French crops by manoeuvres of our troops. 



>. So far as your duties and interest in agricul- 

 ture are concerned what were you doing? I was 

 assessing tho compensation to be paid to various 

 farmers because of interference with their agricul- 

 tural operations through the military operations. 



5671. What experience had you to enable you to 

 come to a correct judgment upon those matters? In 

 Kngland I was working at Headquarters command. 

 We got assessments sent up to us by people on the 

 spot, and we compared them carefully with other assess- 

 ments made by other people in different parts of Eng- 

 land and with what we knew to be the selling value of 

 the crops, and the rental values, and the Government 

 instructions on the subject. We compared them very 

 carefully. It was not practical work, I admit, but 

 wo considered them carefully and came to a conclu- 

 sion as to whether we thought the claim was reasonable 

 or not. 



6572. You had no practical knowledge to enable you 

 to do that? No, not with regard to that, but in 

 France, of course, it was practical work. 



.Vi7.'l. Von said you have been managing your 

 father's farm? Yes. 



6574. How long have you managed his farm? Since 

 I was demobilised in 1917. 



"..'.7.',. So that you have had a year or eighteen 

 months of practical experience of managing your 

 father's farm? Yes. 



Vi7(i. Docs that experience enable you to write this 

 memorandum which you have sent in? Yes, from the 

 account lxik. 



Vi77. You have had siir-h access to the account books 

 of your father's farm as has enabled you to prepare 

 these statements with which you have supplied us? 



MM 



5578. Mr. timith : Could you tell us the acreage of 

 the farm? Approximately 440 acres. 



5579. How much is arable? About 150 acres arable 

 and 12 acres of hops. I made a mistake in the letter 

 to The Times in which I said there were 20 statute 

 acres of hops; it is 12 acres of hops. 



5580. The remainder is pasture? Yes. 



5581. In paragraph 4 you give some figures regard- 

 ing horses. Do you think the charges you set out 

 there is a fair charge to make for depreciation? 

 Fifteen years? 



5582. Yes? Yes. 



5583. Do you breed any horses on the farm ? Yes. 



5584. Are there not young horses always coming in 

 as well as old horses that are passing out, and do you 

 make any allowance for some to be appreciating while 

 others are depreciating? I think that is a question 

 which crops up if you are breeding horses for the pur- 

 pose of sale. If you are breeding them purely for 

 working purposes, as one horse dies a young horse 

 comes in to replace it, and their depreciation must be 

 taken as the length of their working life. 



5585. If the numbers are equal at the end of a 

 certain period the position would remain without any 

 depreciation having had to be taken into account? 

 No, because you have to feed the young horse for three 

 or four years before it conies up to working value, 

 and to that extent you have depreciation to take into 

 account. 



5586. Yes, but taking the early part of his working 

 \ears the horse would appreciate and not depreciate? 

 Unless you are breeding horses to sell, I think that 

 is purely a paper transaction. It appreciates and 

 depreciates, but you do not get any more money for 

 the appreciation or lose anything in respect of the 

 depreciation. What you have to do is to replace 

 the working horse to keep up your teams. 



5587. Have you formed any opinion as to what the 

 relationship of the State should be to the industry 

 in future? No, I cannot say that I have considered 

 that from a political point of view at all. 



5588. You have not considered the question as to 

 whether the industry requires anything in the way 

 of a guarantee from the State? I think that is a 

 matter which depends on a bigger political question 

 than I can give you any opinion upon as to whether 

 it is desirable that we should try to be self-support- 

 ing in respect of food as far as we can possibly "Be. 

 If we are to do that I think some form of guarantee 

 would be necessary, but that is a big political ques- 

 tion and one which as a private individual I do not 

 think it necessary to take into account. It is a 

 question which deals with foreign politics and other 

 matters which are beyond my knowledge. 



5589. Can we take it in the absence of any de- 

 clared policy in that respect that your opinion would 

 be that there is no need for a guarantee? I think 

 that if you were to leave the farming altogether alone 

 people probably would make profits out of it and con- 

 tinue farming for their own benefit, but whether that 

 method of doing it is one in the greatest interest of 

 the nation is another question. It is probably 

 better for the nation if you have much land under 

 arable and so employ a great deal of labour, but I 

 think people will manage to exist at farming whether 

 you give a guarantee or whether you do not. The 

 question of policy seems to me a rather difficult one 

 and governed by other considerations. 



5590. In connection with your father's farm have 

 there been any balance sheets kept? Yes, accurate 

 balance sheets fairly accurate. 



5591. Would it be possible for that information to 

 be given to the Commission? That is a matter with 

 regard to which I must get my father's consent. I 

 could not give that information without asking him. 



5592. Mr. Parker : In paragraph 4 of your evi- 

 dence-in-chief you say that the shortening of the 

 hours of labour to 54 has necessitated the employment 

 of another man and, what is still more important, of 

 another team ? Yes. 



5593. Supposing the hours were reduced from 54 to 

 50 what would that mean in men and teams? I do 

 not think that it would affect the question of teams, 



B 3 



