MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



33 



26 August, 1919.] 



MR. M. D. BANNISTER, F.S.I. 



[Continued. 



6022. Another advantage of the guarantee is that 

 it would suffice to keep in tillage a greater proportion 

 of land than was in tillage in the pre-war period 

 say, in the year 1913? I think that question would 

 depend upon what is going to be the price of beef and 

 mutton. If beef and mutton is going to stay up at 

 anything like the present prices I do not think people 

 who were previously farming arable land would trouble 

 to do so now, because they can make a very good price 

 for their cattle by grazing. I quite realise that an 

 arable farm carries more stock than a pasture farm, 

 but a purely grazing farm carries much less trouble 

 than an ara'ble farm. For that reason I think that 

 farmers would be rather inclined to go in for pasture 

 unless they get a guarantee somewhere in the neigh- 

 bourhood of the figure I have mentioned. 



0023. They would be inclined to turn the land down 

 to grass? Yes, they would rather produce beef on 

 grass admittedly, perhaps not getting quite BO much 

 profit as they would if they had it in arable, but they 

 would have much less trouble and much less capital 

 involved. 



6024. It has been pointed out to us by a number of 

 witnesses that the important thing is not so much to 

 maintain the wheat area a; to maintain the arable 

 area to keep the land in tillage so that it could be 

 switched on to wheat growing in an emergency. Do 

 you consider that the high prices of beef and mutton 

 would actually cause a great deal of the land to be 

 turned down to permanent grass or will it be possible 

 for the situation to be met by using the arable land 

 for meat production and dairy farming? Dairying 

 undoubtedly will keep up the arable. The more milk 

 we produce the more land \r9 shall have as arable, I 

 think. 



6025. That is very interesting. In the course of 

 your business, I suppose you moot a large number of 

 farmers and hear their "opinions about agricultural 

 policy? Yes. 



6026. I suppose it is the case, as we are told it is 

 with most farmers, that they feel insecure about the 

 future of cereal farming? Yes. 



6027. Is it that they think cereal production I am 

 not meaning cereal production to such an extent as 

 would feed the population, but such as would suffice 

 to keep us, say, producing as much corn as we are 

 producing at the present moment, or something mid- 

 way betwen the present figure and tho figure for 1913 

 but is it the case that they fear the future would 

 make that nnremunerative, or is it that they think 

 the future of beef and mutton prices would make the 

 production of beef and mutton more remunerative? 

 I think very manv of the farmers have got it into 

 their heads that when this year's guarantee has come 

 tn an end, thev have to drop to 45s., unless they can 

 niako more. They have the old 45s. of the Corn 

 Production Act in their heads. That is what is reallv 

 the matter with many of them. 



6028. Is it really the fact that they fear a fall in 

 the world's prices, or that they fear the Government 

 stepping in and fixing maximum prices which would 

 prevent them getting advantage of the world prices? 

 I think they fear the fall of prices here owing to 

 the imported corn. 



6029. And that fear has been to some extent in- 

 duced, you consider, by the Corn Production Act 

 having fixed prices which fell away from year to year, 

 going down to 45s. ? Yes, I think so. 



6030. They have taken the figures of the Corn Pro- 

 duction Act as indicating the opinion of experts as 

 to the probable course of world prices? I think so. 



6031. If farmers had to choose between a guarantee 

 of 60s. a quarter for wheat for four years, or no 

 guarantee at all. which do you think they would 

 prefer? I should not like to answer that on the spur 

 of the moment. It would need a good deal of think- 

 ing about. 



6032. Do you think if it is a guarantee of 60s. for 

 four years, it would make them feel they would not 

 run the risk of serious loss if they continued with 

 cereal production ? I want you to leave out the idea 

 of growing so much corn that we would actually feed 

 ourselves? Yes. 



f.033. It has been pointed out to us that a guarantee 

 which lasted for four years, say, on a four-course 



system, is much better for farming than a shorter 

 guarantee. A lower figure stretching ow several 

 years would give a farmer more sense of security than 

 a higher figure for a single year? I think that per- 

 haps would be so with the majority of farmers. I 

 personally would prefer to gamble on the higher figure, 

 if I could get it But I think on the whole farmers 

 would prefer a lower guarantee for a longer time, 

 although it is not a matter I have discussed with 

 them. It is only my personal opinion that I am 

 giving on the spur of the moment. 



6034. Do you think the 60s. would give them a sort 

 of feeling that they would not run the risk of having 

 what was 'described to us the other day as the knock- 

 out blow of a bad period? I think it would make 

 them think for some considerable time as to what was 

 the wise thing to do under the circumstances. I think 

 they would seriously consider going on. Whether 

 they would finally decide that it was adequate or not, 

 is another question. 



6035. It would save them from this fear of world's 

 prices tumbling down to 45s.? Yes. 



6036. You said just now in answer to one of the 

 Commissioners, that you did not yourself put much 

 faith in guaranteed prices even if they are high. 

 Have you any alternative to suggest for them? I am 

 afraid I have not. 



6037. 3/r. Nicholls: I only wanted to get clear on 

 one or two points. Did I understand you to say that 

 the ploughman in Sussex was working 6 days a week, 

 seven hours a day, for 42s.? This was previous to 

 the last increase in wages. In that time he would be. 



6038. And the seven hours apply to the time he is 

 working in the field? Yes, in the field. 



6039. Does he get overtime for the hours beyond 

 that seven, or what happens:' No. I was taking it 

 that he would work his nine hours, of which seven 

 would be in the field. 



6040. Mr. Dallas: On a point of order, surely Mr. 

 Bannister is unconsciously making an error. Prior 

 to the last increase in wages the rate for carters in 

 Sussex was 48s. for all the hours they could work ; 

 that is the customary hours wages? Certainly; but 

 on this farm they were paying 42s., and this was one 

 man they were paying 4s. over the standard wage. 



6041. Mr. Nicholls: Did 1 understand you to say 

 that in that district the men were getting higher than 

 the minimum? In some cases; I mean the better 

 farmer is paying higher wages and getting the better 

 men. The worst farmer is paying the standard wages 

 and getting the worst men. 



6042. Your suggestion was that a few of the best 

 type were really above the minimum? Certainly. 



6043. I was not quite clear about the " swelled 

 head " business. I did not quite know to whom that 

 applied. Does it apply to the young men or to the 

 ordinary labourer? The type of man I found it 

 applied to was the youngster who had got his pro- 

 tection certificate ; I mean admittedly it is the worst 

 type of farm hand. But there was a considerable 

 number there must be black sheep in all classes 

 who did find he was practically indispensable and 

 he was protected, and he began to think he was more 

 indispensable than he really was ; whereas the older 

 man, even if he was within the age limit and got 

 his protection certificate, took a much better view of 

 things and worked much better accordingly. 



6044. What I wanted to get at was, was he worse 

 during that period than you wfjuld suggest he is now? 

 He is beginning to come to reason again now - 

 very fast. 



6045. Because my experience was that generally 

 that type of young fellow was a better proposition to 

 the farmer because he had got him exempted and he 

 held the whip-hand over him, and there was a threat 

 of the Army if he did not keep up to scratch. My 

 experience was the very opposite from what you have 

 suggested and I wondered whether there was anything 

 special in that? No; that has not been my ex- 

 perience. 



6046. In reply to Mr. Langford, 1 was not quite 

 sure whether you have come to the conclusion that 

 the chief guarantee which really a successful agri- 

 culturist needs against depression is to have a large 

 family, mostly sons? I think that is. the best insur- 

 ance you can have. 



02 



