44 



ROTAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



37 Auytui, 1919.] 



MR. THOMAB C. GOODWIN. 



[Continued. 



you during the war? I have changed my farm since. 

 I am in another district now, but the same type of men 

 are at the farm I was at then to a large extent. 



6989. We hare got a comparison of figures hero 

 between these two farms which do not, until they 

 are explained, present just the case We want. What 

 I wanted to find out was, if the same typo of man 

 was there, why there should bo a greater difficulty 

 in getting him to work along the some lines as ho 

 did in 1915? Generally speaking we have not got 

 the same type of man. For instance, during the war 

 I had a lot of good young men leave I had nine go 

 in one fortnight some of the best men on the farm, 

 and quite a number of them hare never come back ; 

 they were killed, and you have not got the same 

 choice of men now. 



6900. That means that the war did take away from 

 you men who were eligible before men of a more 

 capable typo? We have lost some of our best men. 



6301. That accounts for some of your difficulties 

 and for the large increase in the cost? It certainly 

 must account for the whole situation when you get a 

 depletion of some of your best men. 



6302. With regard to the question of guarantees, 

 do you think that if farmers were guaranteed a 

 certain price for cereal growing they, on their -id. 

 would be prepared to guarantee the State a certain 

 acreage of wheat, we will say? If the State w:nn 

 so much wheat grown, and it saya to farmers, " To 

 encourage you to grow wheat we are prepared to do 

 so and so," you, on your side, ought to say to the 

 State, " We are prepared to give you the acreage 

 you want," do you not? Do you think the farmer 

 would agree to that? Tea, I think he would. He 

 has always done his best in the post to carry out his 

 side of a bargain, I think. 



6303. Do you think that he would be prepared to 

 have pressure put upon him to do that? Do you 

 moan more pressure than he has had during the 

 war? I think he has responded wonderfully well 

 during the war in the ploughing up of his old 

 pasture and all the rest of it which is a great 

 sacrifice to make. 



6304. A good deal of the response was due to the 

 fact, was it not, that he had to do it because of the 

 pressure brought to bear upon him? In our county 

 I knew a good deal about that. I was on the Com- 

 mittee, and I am still on it, and I know there was 

 very little indeed of that pressure that had to be 

 brought. It was only in the case of a few out-of- 

 date farmers who were not farming as they should 

 have done where any pressure was needed to be 

 put on. 



6305. Could you say whether that side of it has 

 been discussed by the farmers at all? T do not 

 think it has in our district, but I do not think there 

 would be the least difficulty about it. 



6306. Mr. Lennard : You spoke of a on-operative 

 ociety as being unable to get men of sufficient nbility 

 to act as managers of farms? Tes. 



6307. Is that due, do you think, to the salaries 

 offered being inadequate? It is n common charge 

 niram"! co-opi ? flies that the salaries they 

 offer are not enough? I could not say. I do not 

 know what salaries are being paid by the co operative 

 societies at the present time, tint in farming men 

 must have a nnturnl ability which you very often 

 do not get in the ordinary man and they do not get 

 the best men certainly. 



630R. You might get them if the position was made 

 more attractive? I question whether you would even 

 then. 



6309. Why?- There is a certain dislike amongst the 

 farming oommunitv to tiike up these positions: ihev 

 like to farm on their own, and not to be restrict eil 

 I know that in mv own case it would go very much 

 against the grain for me to have to farm under the 

 conditions that these men I know have to farm under 

 and the best men will not have it. You are always 

 subject to a Committee nd so on. and a man is not 

 at liberty to farm, as he should be. under the best 

 conditions. 



6310. He is an emnlovce instead of an em plover? 

 Ye.. 



6311. I gathered from your answer to Mr. Walker 

 that in your opinion cereal production is in danger 

 because of farmers baring a feeling . Uy as 

 to the future in respect of selling prices? Yea. 



6312. You said that the farmer had to look a long 

 time ahead. Do you consider that corn production 

 would be more encouraged by a moderate guarantee 

 for a period of years than by a high guarantee for 

 one year? Unless the guarantee is fairly liberal for 

 a number of years it will not have the desired effect. 



6313. Have you considered the guarantee as an 

 insurance against loss rather than as an assurance 

 of gain? We have had it put before us that a 

 guarantee may be regarded as an insurance against 

 a slump of prices in a particular year to safeguard 

 the farmer against very heavy loss? Yes, and to 

 cover some of the risk that he runs. 



6314. Yes? Of course, we have always the abnormal 

 seasons to contend with, and we must have something 

 allowed for that. 



6315. The danger which the guarantee would guard 

 you against is not so much the danger of a bad 

 season in this country but the danger, if one may- 

 put it so, of a very good season in America? Yes. 



6316. Do you think that a guarantee of 60s. a 

 quarter for four years would make the farmer 

 fairly secure against serious loss by a colla].- 



- in a particular year, if he was able at the 

 same time to make full profit in years when prices 

 high? A minimum guarantee of 60s. for 

 wheat ? 



6317. For wheat for four years? I do not think 

 you would maintain the acreage of wheat under such 

 a guarantee as that. 



6318. Not even if the farmer had the free play of 

 the market above that? No, I do not think so. 



6319. Do you think that the farmer would rather 

 have a guarantee of 60s. for four years for wheat, or 

 no guarantee at all? I do not think there would 

 be much to choose between the two. 



(i.'i20. You realise, I suppose, that a guarantee 

 which was higher than the normal cost of wheat nt 

 world prices in the future would involve a serious 

 burden on the taxpayer? Yes; if it was higher it 

 would bo a burden there is no doubt, but is it n it 

 a burden that is justified? 



6321. Will you agree with me that the taxpayer 

 is pretty heavily burdened already? Yee. 



6323. I want to make clear a point which was raised 

 just now by Mr. Nidiolls. You agrei-d with him, I 

 think, that if a guarantee were given by the Govern 

 ment the Government in fairness to the community 

 might require something from the farmer in return"- 

 Yes. 



6323. Take an example: Do you think farmers 

 \vould agree that it would lie a fair condition of the 

 guarantee that farmers ought to maintain their 

 present area under tillage and plough up any land 

 the County Agricultural Committee considered should 

 be ploughed up? I mean unless a man did this he 

 should not be ent 'tied to nxeive any payment which 

 ho might otherwise receive under the guarantee? 

 That is, if the market prices for the year fall belm\ 

 the guarantee and he had to make his claim upon 

 tho Government and unless ho had kept up his acre- 

 age- he could not substantiate his chi'm:- 



6324. Yes. unless he had kept up li and 

 done anything in the way of ploughing up frwh 

 acreage that the County Committee told him to do. 

 he would not be entitled to i-ix-eive payment ? --That 

 would be having regard to what he had ploughed 

 dur'ng the last two or time years. 



With regard to that you would have to trust 

 the wisdom of the County Committee, of course? 

 Yes. In the majority of rsit-< the plough has been 

 put in to tho utmost limit unless vou want to 

 endanger the milk supply. We have to have a cextain- 

 amount of acreage of pasture for cattle in tho sum- 

 mer time and for the feeding of the 1>< < f -.ittle too. 

 ond if you extend it any further than it. is at the 



it time I think there would lie. a danger thro. 

 but to maintain the present acreage is, of course, 

 another thing. 



R32fi. You agree ; t would be considered a fnir c^n- 

 dition in return for the guarantee thnt the ' 

 should maintain his present acreage?- -Yes, I thin^ ft 



