46 



ROTAI, COMMISSION ON AQBICULTURK. 



*7 



1919.] 



MR. THOMAS C. GOODWIN. 



[Continued. 



Chairman : I think we must leave it to Mr. Lang- 

 ford to get that out. 



6363. Mr. Lamjforil : I put it to yon that you 

 would not, in the case of fields a long distance away 

 from the homestead, be able to cart your farmyard 

 manure and spread it for 2s. 6d. a ton ? The 2a. 6d. 

 does not cover the spreading. 



6864. You say so here? No, it says, " Carting 

 2s. 6d. per ton and spreading 3 " per acre. 



6365. Even assuming that the 2s. 6d. does not 

 include spreading you would need to be very near 

 the field to cart the manure at 2s. 6d. a tqn? 

 That is so. 



6366. It could not possibly be carted anything 

 approximating to a distance of two miles for that 

 price ? No. 



6367. You spoke about the danger to the milk 

 supply if more land is broken up. I take it that 

 you refer particularly to your own county, which is 

 a dairy county? That is so. 



6368. That would not be applicable to many other 

 counties? No. 



6369. You speak of the lack of interest on the part 

 of the agricultural labourer in his work at the 

 present time. I am quite certain you want to do full 

 justice to the labourer? I do. 



6370. Pre-war, when wages were very much lover 

 than they are to-day, it was possible for the farmer 

 to expect lees from his men than he is bound to expect 

 from them to-day under revised and higher wages? 

 Yes. 



6371. That may account, may it not, for what 

 appears to be an apparent lack of. interest on the 

 part of the labourer in his work? That is so. I am 

 afraid that many farmers do not realise the position 

 from that aspect. 



6372. With regard to co-operative farms you said 

 that the bailiffs and managers put in by co-operative 

 societies did not carry on the farming operations so 

 sucessfully as the farmer himself would? Yes. 



6373. I put it to you that is not the fault of the 

 bailiff himself, but very largely the fault of those 

 who are over the bailiff who know nothing of agricul- 

 ture? Yes, that is quite right. I referred to him 

 having to work under a Committee and to his not 

 having any freedom at all. 



6374. You as a farmer experience no difficulty in 

 finding a suitable bailiff or a foreman to manage 

 your farm, do you? No. 



6375. That is because you understand and are able 

 to be reasonable with him and give him proper 



"oversight? That is so. 



6376. Which he does not get when he is farming 

 under a Committee? That is so. 



6377. The Chairman : To what do your figures 

 refer? Do they refer to three farms or to two farms 

 or what? To my own three farms, with the 

 exception of potatoes. I wanted to base the figures 

 exactly on {his year's crop, and through not being 

 able myself to grow the quantity of potatoes that I 

 thought would be a fair crop upon which to base 

 the figures, I consulted with an up-to-date farmer 

 with respect to those figures and included his results. 



6378. Are the figures in Table No. 1 in respect of a 

 particular farm or a selection of farms? In respect 

 of two particular farms. 



6379. Not necessarily your own farms? That is 

 the only one which does not relate to my own farms. 



6380. What sort of land is this other farm? 

 Medium land on the light side. I can give you the 

 name of the farmer if you wish it. 



6381. Yes, I should be much obliged if you would 

 Hire us his name? Mr. Peter Frith, of Organsdale, 

 Kelsall, Chester. 



Mr. Sadler: The farm is under the Crown. 



6382. Mr. Prouer Jones: I understood you to say 

 in reply to one of the Commissioners, that you wen- 

 in favour of a guaranteed price provided that it 

 exceeded 60s. Is that so- I 'lid not say pr>v ! ! 

 h-xt it i-\"-'"!od 60. I think I said, nut below tin- 

 present minimum price. 



6383. 1 think 60s. was suggested to you, and you 

 thought it wa not of much value. Was not ihat "M>- 

 Ye, I think that was so; but. my idoa w;u> that the 



a:..,.| pi , must not be below the price of 

 76s. 6d. at present fixed for wheat. 



6384. Would you agree with the suggestion that 

 the guaranteed price the hours of labour, as well as 

 tin- wages to be paid to the labourer, should cover a 

 certain pen<>.) i think it is necessary that the 

 guarantee should bo given for a certain period. 



6385. For what number of years? I would suggest 

 not less than five. 



6386. 1 think you said that the frequent changes 

 in the hours of labour were a disturbing element in 

 production ? Yes. 



6387. And you agree that the hours should not be 

 interfered with except in vreey three or five years? 

 No, not in respect of hours. I thought you ret" 



to the guaranteed minimum for corn. 



6388. I refer to the guarantee to cover four or five 

 years; I also refer to the hours as well as tin remmif 

 ration? In respect of hours, I think certainly a 

 yearly revision would bo quite reasonable. 



6389. That they should sync -hron se. finish and com- 

 mence at the same time? Ye-;. You mmin the ques- 

 tion of wages and hours in respect to the Wa^iv. 

 Board, how often would I suggest a revision ? 



6390. Yes. I think you suggested that farim rs 

 were liable to revert to grass farming if a guarantee 

 were not given P Yes. 



6391. AVhat effect would that havo on milk, cheese, 

 and meat? Certainly there would l>o more paMnraiy- 

 for the production of milk, but there would not 1- 

 perhaps the same amount of provision for the winter 

 months. 



6392. Would not that set up a koon competition 

 and reduce prices for milk and cheese, if a large 

 number of farmers were to revert to grass farming? 

 Reduce the prices of milk? 



6393. Yes? We have not quite the same competi- 

 tion in respect of milk, and ihere never can be. 



6394. Would it not be home c-ompet itinnr Th< 

 farmers would be competing one against the other:' 



I do not think it' would have that effect not to the 

 same extent. 



6395. I notice in your Table No. 1, that you paid 

 2 10s. 3d. in rent and rates ; is not that rather a 

 high rent? No. In Cheshire the hulk of the farms 

 are let at from 2 and upwards, a great many of 

 them the best farms. 



6396. Have not we got here rent and rates at 28s. ? 

 That is on the other Inrge farm in Shropshire a 



very different farm altogether. 



6397. Did you tell us that you owned this farm 

 when you paid 2 10s. 3d.? Yes. 



6398. How did you arrive at fixing this rent of 

 2 10s. 3d.? Chiefly on the rent that was paid 

 previous to my buying it, with an addition for the 

 increase in capital at the present time. 



6399. Did you buy this farm in the open market.. 

 >r was it a private transaction? It was a private 

 sale. 



6400. Would you mind tolling the Commission how 

 many years' purchase it meant? I have not cal- 

 culated ht>w many years' purchase, it was. 1 may say 

 that a farm of 'this character at the present time 

 would make 65 per acre without any difficulty- 



i; mi. That is over 30 years' purchase? Yes. T may 

 point, out that one particular estimate does not refer 

 to my farm. 



6102. This 2 10s. 3d.? No. 

 r,KM. Does not it refer to your farm? No. 

 0404. Does not it refer to the crop grown in 1919? 

 . Not that one particular estimate. Mv own farm is 

 on the same basis with respect to rent. RO that the 

 inn applies equally. 



6405. What T wanted to find out was. whether this 

 high ' paid on account of the, high price that 

 you paid for the farm? Well, the bulk of the farms 

 are let nt the present time at 2 an acre upwards. 



6406. Would you be surprised to hear that we have 

 had several instances given us here where good land 

 in let at much leu* than this? It must l>r-a very old 



