MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



13 



26 August, 1919.] 



MR. ALBERT BUCKLE. 



[Continued. 



5378. Have you any suggestions to make as to 

 how to attract these men more to their work? No, 

 I am afraid I have not. 



5379. What would you say if they were better 

 educated?- 1 do not think that would attract them 

 more to farm life. Perhaps if they were given an 

 education in the schools to interest them more in 

 rural life that might be an inducement. 



5380. You know that it is proposed to give these 

 boys an additional education until they are 16 years 

 of age? Yes, that is so. 



5381. Will that tend to increase or decrease the 

 supply of agricultural labour? It will decrease it, 

 I should think. 



5382. They will be taken away from the farms more 

 than ever in your opinion? \eu. 



5383. Will they find some other occupation if they 

 have more education? 1 should think they will find 

 something else. I think the best education a boy 

 can have when he is 14 years of age is on a farm 

 learning to drive a horse and milk a cow, and so 

 forth, that is if he is intended to be a farm labourer. 



5384. So that it is not advisable to give him too 

 much education? I do not think so beyond a certain 

 point. 



5385. I think yon told us it would be well if control 

 were removed in connection with milk, and so on? 

 Yes. 



5386. Would that increase the supply of butter and 

 cheese, do you think? 



The Chairman : That question has been asked 

 already. 



5387. Mr Prosier Jones : The minimum wage fixed 

 by the Government has been considerably exceeded in 

 yonr district, has it not? Yes. 



5388. How do you account for that has that been 

 owing to the shortage of labour? Yes. 



5389. Is the rate of wages likely to increase with 

 a further shortage? Yes, if the shortage continues 

 I should say so. 



5390. Does it not mean that if you are unable to 

 get sufficient labour to cultivate your land you have 

 got more land than you can cultivate? Undoubtedly 

 it does mean that. 



5391. I suppose you are aware that we have in the 

 country about half a million of men. who are un- 

 employed at the present moment? That is so. 



5392. Some of them possibly unemployable? Yes. 



5393. Would it not be well if some of these men 

 were put on the land that the farmers cannot manage 

 to find labour for? Do you mean to come and work 

 for the f armor P 



5394. No, to work the land on their own account ? 

 I should think they ought to learn to do the work 

 first. You cannot put anybody on to the land to 

 run a farm. 



5395. I am referring particularly to discharged 

 soldiers who were formerly working on the land. 

 Would they not be the most likely people to take up 

 small holdings? I should say they would certainly 

 be the most likely. 



5396. How is it that the home farmer is so very 

 much afraid of foreign competition ? The foreigner 

 has quite a long distance to send his commodities to 

 this country. How is it that the foreign farmer can 

 compete with him, and compete successfully with 

 him? I think, in many cases, thpy have virgin soil, 

 not worn out land the game as we have, and possibly 

 cheaper labour. I do not know what the freights 

 are nowadays, but I know it was said at one time 

 that corn could be brought from the Argentine 

 cheaper to this country than perhaps it could be 

 *cnt from Yorkshire here by rail. 



5397. Wages in America are considerably above 

 what they are ill England, yet we find that the 

 American farmer competes with the English farmer, 

 and competes with him successfully? Yes. Do you 

 know what system they have there? I suppose he 

 has his land for nothing in many cases, has he not? 



.4/, . J.'irtijf/ird: In your prtcii of evidence. 



I tl'ink yon imply that unless a guarantee is given on 

 '.mi the land will rnvort to gras? Yes, certain land. 

 '''. 1 take it, and I hope you will agree, that 



the object of giving a guarantee is to prevent land 

 reverting to grass in other words, to keep a large 

 proportion of the land under the plough? Yes. 



5400. In the interests of the nation? Yes. 



5401. It was the serious shortage of food in conse- 

 quence of the war that caused the ploughing pro- 

 gramme to be inaugurated, was it not? Yes. 



5402. If we have a considerable conflict again, 

 unless land is kept under the plough we may once 

 more be in a similar position? That is so. 



5403. I think you said that, as a farmer, you were 

 not asking for a guarantee ; that you wished to be 

 left alone? With regard to milk. 



5404. With regard to other matters, too? Not 

 with regard to grain. 



5405. Have you lost faith in pasture farming? 

 Xo, not in pasture farming, certainly not. 



5406. Unless a guarantee is given the farmer will 

 pursue his own methods of farming and follow those 

 that arc most profitable to him ? That is so. 



5407. Which may be grass? Yes, that is my point. 



5408. I think one of the Commissioners put this 

 question to you: You want the guarantee on the 

 things you sell, and you want to buy in a free 

 market? Yes, I think that question was put to me. 



5409. You cannot .buy your labour in a free 

 market ? No, we cannot. 



5410. There is a minimum wage fixed by lawP 

 That is so. 



5411. Therefore labour is not free? No. 



5412. You are not able to purchase your labour 

 in a free market? No. 



5413. Labour is one of the largest items that enter 

 into the cost of production? That is so. 



5414. I am not for a moment against a minimum 

 wage; I think it is quite right? So do I. 



5415. At tho same time, it is not quite just to say 

 that everything you buy is in an open and free 

 market ? Undoubtedly not. 



5416. Have rents been raised at all in your dis- 

 trict? Not at all as far as I am aware. I do 

 know of one case. 



5417. Has much of the land been sold? 



The Chairman: That question has been asked. 



5418. Mr. Ixingford : Are the farmers suffering 

 much from insecurity of tenure in your district? 

 Yes, there is a great amount of feeling in regard to 

 insecurity of tenure by estates being sold. I con- 

 tend that under the Agricultural Holdings Act a 

 farmer does not get the compensation to which he 

 is entitled if he is disturbed ; he does not get the 

 full benefit of his improvements. 



5419. If there is a fear that their farms are going 

 to be put up to auction over the farmers' heads that 

 does not conduce to good farming, does it? That is 

 so. 



5420. I am afraid I must not ask you any questions 

 about milk, but I would like to. 



The, Chairman: Why not, unless they have boon 

 asked already? 



5421. Mr. Lungford: You told the Commission you 

 would like milk to be de-controlled? Yes. 



5422. Is it seriously your impression that if milk 

 was de-controlled now, the prices would be lower? 

 No. I think for a timo the price would go tip. 



5423. Are the farmers satisfied with the prices they 

 have been obtaining for milk during the last two or 

 three months? Undoubtedly not. The point is that 

 it is almost impossible to fix a price that is suitable 

 for all districts. I mean there are districts like tho 

 West Riding of Yorkshire where the Travelling Com- 

 mission, of which you were a member, decided that 

 they should have an extra price. The difficulty is in 

 drawing the line. 



5424. Turning to your cost of production of roots, 

 you said that a normal crop in your district was from 

 10 to 15 tons per acre? Yes. 



5425. You also said that for this year the crop 

 would not be more than 5 tons per acre on the aver- 

 age? Quite possibly. 



5426. After deducting, as you propose to do, one- 

 third of the manure used in a root crop, the cost of 

 production I work out. assuming a normal crop and 



