MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



26 Augutt, 1919.] 



MR. ALBERT BUCKLE. 



[Continued. 



5144. How is a farmer to live if he does not charge 

 for his time? That is true, I suppose. 



.">14-">. We are not dealing with profit but just 

 with his own time-' That is right. 



5146. I notice there is nothing either for keeping 

 the ditches or tenets in order? I wauled to make 

 some remarks with regard to that. 



">147. What are they? That it is most difficult to 

 arrive at coste of production. There is all that class 

 of work which it is almost impossible to put to any 

 crop. There is the repairing of roads, and so forth. 



5148. Yes, and there is nothing included for that? 

 Then there is loss in your stock through death and 

 other causes, and there is loss in crops. Sometimes a 

 crop absolutely fails. 



5149. We are only dealing with the wheat crop now. 

 Mr. Anker Simmons suggested that as to the cost of the 

 valuation when the incoming tenant takes possession, 

 there is a certain scale adopted by the agreement or 

 the custom of the country as to the valuation of 

 manures, and therefore you apply the same in estimat- 

 ing the value of a crop. It does not apply at all ? I 

 agree ; that is my contention. 



5150. What we are here to do is to find the actual 

 cost of growing a crop ? Yes. 



5151. And in the actual cost of growing a crop, is 

 the actual cost of manure an essential ingredient? 

 Yes. 



5152. Have you an<l your Committee in the best, of 

 your opinion taken the average cost of production of 

 the manure? Yes. 



5153. I suggest to you that H>s. a ton is a low figure-, 

 that is, for the manure, the carting and the spread 

 ing!' Although it is only throwing it out of the cart, 

 it takes time? Quite so. 



;">1">4. 1 suggest you could not get it done or buy 

 it at that. If you said to anybody: " I will buy 100 

 tons of manure and you spread it on my field," you 

 could not get it done at 10s. :< tun;' I'ossilily not. 



."ii'i.j. Do not take my word. I aui only speaking of 

 the South of England!'- -It is a thing which is not on 

 tho market : you cannot buy it. There is no such thing 

 as buying it. 



r.l.'.lj. You < <>M|, I ii ., Imy it. so that you can only 

 form an estimate of its vain 



"i\~i7. Can you tell me how much you have allowed 

 for the labour of getting it on to tho land and .spread 

 ing it out of the In,.;- No, we did not make any 

 .lation. \\'e thought the 10s. a fair price for the 

 manure and the carting. 



& T agree with what Mr. Anker Simmons said, 

 and I think you would probably agree, that the fair 

 cost of uhcut is t,i take tile cost of an acre of fallow 

 and the cost ot an acre grown after potato 

 or whatever vour root is, and divide by tv. 

 V- 



M.'iO. I understood that that came to an average 

 of about 15 an acre. That is 75s. a quarter? Yes; 

 on the fallow it was 15 an acre. 



f'hnirniiin: I think he took it without the straw. 

 The first was K the next is Cll 12s.. and if you 

 add those two together and divide it is CI5. 



5160. Mr. Cuntli ,/ : VIM. It comes to 15, and then 

 the farmer would have the straw" Is that on the 

 two crops? 



5161. On the first one and the last one it works 

 out at 15, and then there is the straw to be 

 dedn No. the straw was deducted in the first. 



.".Ii2. Yes; but to get at the average of 15 you 

 must take it at IS m\ 11 ]'2s. making practically 

 *>. and then the farmer has the straw? Yes, that 

 in right. 



"i I ''.T I have already pointed out in my view that 

 these Bgnrei an- on the low side and there is nothing 

 allowed either for interest or management or for 

 reeding or road repairing or an\ thing of that sort? 

 is charged. 





. Quite right, but nothing for fencing or ditch- 

 \" nothing for fencing or ditching. 

 "ic..-,. Yon told us von thought that a guarantee of 

 . would IK? effective. In the first place, on your 

 figures, the ,lls. would not show any profit" Yes I 

 think it would. It would show a slight profit; not a 

 very high one. 



" '1'iailcrs com,, to L'll:- I think on the 

 average deducting the. straw, this is costing about M 

 per quarter or a little over. 



5167. I was putting it to you the straw is about 

 2 10s. in one case and 3 in the other, against the 

 other expenses pnd the farmer's profit? I see. 



5168. These things are very difficult to get an 

 absolutely exact figure of. This is what I really want 

 to get at. It is a point of principle. 14 you see 

 would not show a profit. Would you agree with me 

 that the farmer will grow what pays him?. Un- 

 doubtedly. 



5160. That if the object is to get wheat grown, 

 farmers must see a profit in growing wheat? That 

 is so. 



5170. If the object is to get nr:lk grown on the 

 farm, farmers must see a profit in growing milk? 

 That is so. 



5171. And would you agree that the farmer will cul- 

 tivate any land if it pays him? Yes; if he can get 

 the labour, undoubtedly. 



5172. Assuming that he can get the labour, the 

 farmer is there to make money; it is his livelihood? 

 Quite so. 



5173. Taking this laud that you have given us at 

 what 1 have put, and the figures are before the Com- 

 mission, at 15 an acre the average cost, is it the 

 best land in Cleveland or the average land? The 

 average land. 



5174. Is there a large quantity below that average 

 used for growing corn at the present moment? Yes, 

 there is some. There is some better and some worse. 

 That is the average. 



5175. To what extent of district are you speaking 

 for in your chamber? The whole of Cleveland. 



0170. I do not know how big that is? I cannot tell 

 you the acreage. 



5177. Is it the whole of the North Riding? No. 



5I7S. Only a portion of the North Riding? Yes. 

 It extends out to about Whitby I think, and from 

 there to Middlesbrough on the coast. 



5179. Could you give us any idea how much land 

 would be below thin average of 15 cost? I do not 

 quite follow you. 



5180. You see you are telling us what tho average 

 cost of growing wheat is. If there is a large amount 

 of land bolow the average with a great deal of land 

 above the. average, how, if the guarantee of 70s. will 

 keep ih, average land in cultivation, will it keep the 

 bad land in cultivation? 1 see your point now. 1 

 (rtily suggest that aa a minimum. 



I . Of course a" guarantee is a minimum, and 

 wo are only dealing with a minimum? I think it 

 would encourage the farmer if the farmer thought he 

 had a guaranteed minimum of 70s., and had the 

 [lay of the market. He has the hope of getting 

 more. I think it would tend to keep his land under 

 cultivation, provided wages do not go any higlier 

 than they are to-day. That is made on the assump- 

 tion that wages remain the same. 



5182. You do not meet the difficulty I have. I 

 '1'iite see the 70s. might be- enough for the better 

 laud; hut my difficulty is on your figures to see how 



that would keep the worst land in cultivation? I 



suggested that as a figure we thought was the one. 



. You cannot give us auv assistance on that 

 point' 1 No, 1 think the 70s. is enough. 



Tli, !, is only one other thing I want to ask 

 you a little about. I gather that you are a milk pro- 

 ducer?-^ , 



"1*5. Of course, with milk there is no foreign com- 

 petition at all. is there-?-- Very little. 



5186. Practically nothing. Therefore it you havw 

 the free- play of the market, whatever it was, milk 

 would be produced and a much milk as was wanted. 

 is not that your opinion? It would in time. 1 mean 

 I her,, is a great scarcity, and likely to be a very great 

 scarcity this winter in my opinion. 



~>\-7. But in view of the great scarcity now, is not 

 it absolutely essf-nt'al in the pnlilic interest that there 

 honld he a limitation put on tli- price? 1'erha.ps at 

 the present time; but I think it is the very fact of 

 the milk having been controlled in the first'that has 

 ' aii*cd this scarcity. 



Milk is absolutely css('itial? Ye-i. 



5 Hi). Would not you really agrco it is absolutely 

 n,-cessary that there should be a controlled price at the 

 present moment?- -Possibly for this winter; but it is 



