MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



26 Auguit, 1919.J 



MR. ALBERT BUCKLE. 



[Continued. 



4977. Have you any considerable proportion of 

 farms on which the labour is done chiefly by the 

 holder and his family without hired labour? Yes, 

 there is a fair number. 



4978. Does the labour difficulty arise on those farms 

 at all:' Xot to such a great extent. 



4979. I suppose in purely arable work the larger 

 fanner is compensated by being able to use more 

 machinery:' Yes,, I think he has the advantage 

 there. 



4980. In dairying there is not the great 'ompensa- 

 tion, is there:' No, I do not think so. I do not 

 think the machinery in dairying is very satisfactory 

 up to the present. 



. The milking machine has not made great 

 progress in your district: 1 Xo. I have one myself, 

 but I am not particularly struck with it. 



I'.'-'J. But in relation to dairying, you say the 

 labour difficulty is very great. Has it been the habit 

 in your district to employ women to any large extent 

 in dairying P It has been during this war-time. 



4983. But not before the war? No. not so much. 



4984. Do you think that will continue after the 

 war!' Personally I do not think under the hours 

 that are at present fixed, you will get men or youths 

 to do it. We have only got the women to fall back 

 upon. 



What hours are you referring to? Tho 

 Saturday half-day holiday ai'd so forth. 



4986. Does that regular Saturday half-day holiday 

 obtain in dairy work? In many cases we pay higher 

 wages in lieu of their having the Saturday half-day. 



4987. Do you make any other arrangement for 

 giving leisure to dairy workers:- Wo let them take 

 it alternately: possibly, instead of giving them a 

 a regular half-day, you give them a day or a week-end 

 when they wish. 



4988. In your third paragraph you speak of the 

 policy of the Ministry of Food as baring distoiiraged 

 calf roarini:. You reler to the relative prices of milk 

 and butter - Y. 



4989. Do you find that that has stopped the practice 

 altogether of feeding ealves on separated milk:' Not 

 absolutely altogoth 



4D90. You sell a certain amount of butter r There 

 is very little butter sold now. I was speaking to a 

 farmer out Wonsloydalo way. who tells me they are 

 nearly all selling their milk his way in preference" 

 to butter making and calf roaring. 



l!!ll. Do you say that the inimlier of eaho, reared 

 in your district has diminished:' I think in thoso 

 districts it has not particularly in my district. In 

 the Dales and in the more outlying districts, most 

 1 1 rtainly it has. 



J!'!I2. On account of the high pricv of milk and the 

 relative!) lower price of butter? Yes. that is so. 



4993. But is not it still profitable when people wish 

 to rear calves, to use separated milk as a substitute? 

 -You cannot use separated milk if you sell the whole 

 of the milk. 



1 \o ; lint you can sell certain proportions of 

 milk as cream or butter? 1 think if a man goes into 

 the business he prefers to sell it all; he does not 

 carry on the two branches. 



4995. They used to employ it all in busier making? 

 Yes, in many cases. 



499fi. Yon say something at the end of that para- 

 graph alum! dairy farming being the most arduous 

 of all branches of farming, which at all events in the 

 ease of arable dairying it no doubt is, but you say 

 that it should be the li. ,t paid. Have you any 



MS to make about that? Can you ra 

 bing of a practical kind with regard to it? -What 

 I mean is. that we should have a fair profit for pro- 

 ducing. 



l!i!>7. Are you referring merely to the present con 

 trolled prices, or to something else? Yes, I am 

 referring to the present controlled prices. 



I0'i-i. An.l to those only? Yes. I think so; or as 

 to what, may take plaee in the future with regard 

 to control. 



' That i- to say. \ ou think any continuation of 



control bey, nd what is absolutely 'necessary in the 



national interests, would have an "ad. ors,. effect upon 



prodoctionf Y. I do think go. I think there 



arejnany other ways. I mean a farmer can gell his 



10880 



produce or produce beef and make a better profit 

 than in dairying, with less labour to himself. 



5000. But you are not advocating any special State 

 guarantee or anything of that kind in relation to 

 production? Personally, I think it would be better 

 from a national standpoint that milk should bs de- 

 controlled, and that we should have a free market. 



5001. That is the point you are dealing with? 

 Yes. It might have the effect of raising prices a little 

 just at first, but I think the increased production 

 would very soon take place. The farmers would 

 have greater confidence. Under this control you do 

 not get it controlled far enough forward. You never 

 know from month to month what to expect. We did 

 not know what to expect for the month of August. 

 We got the 4d. rise for July, and then it was taken 

 off for August, when the conditions in our district 

 were considerably worse. 



5002. So that you put it to us that the control is 

 having an adverse effect on milk production? Cer- 

 tainly I do think so. 



5003. Do you tell us that there are cases of people 

 who are giving up dairying? Yes. 



5004. Are actually disposing of their herds? Yes, 

 I know of several in my own district. 



5005. Are dairy cows maintaining their price in 

 your district? Yes. They have been slightly Iqwer 

 this last month since the 4d. was taken off. 



5006. But on the whole they have not fallen very 

 much in price? No; until the 4d. was taken off, 

 then there was a drop in price. 



">(! 1 7. Can you explain, if that is the case, why 

 you think that people are giving up dairying? It is 

 chiefly on account of the labour and the hours. 



5008. No. I mean can you explain if people are 

 giving up dairying why is it the case that dairy 

 cows are maintaining their price? I suppose there is 

 a great scarcity of cows, and there will be a greater 

 scarcity through the slaughter of calves. 



5009. You speak of the system of cropping in Cleve- 

 land. You epeak of a four-course system as prac- 

 tised. That is not continuous, is it? You have a 

 period of temporary grass between these courses, 

 have not you? No. not on the greater portion. 



5010. There is no grass in that rotation at all? 

 -There is the clover crop. 



5011. One clover crop; that is all? Yes. 



5012. On land of that class, is not that a very costly 

 wav of producing? I do not think so. 



5013. There are only one or two points I want to 

 put to you on your costing figures. In paragraph 8 

 you put in 10 tons an acre as the average or normal 

 production of roots. What was your estimate based 

 upon? At the time, on this year's crop. 



5014. You say on account of the continued drought 

 the yield will l>e only about half this estimate. You 

 are referring to the 10 tons estimate? That is BO. 



5015. Is that your normal production? No, cer- 

 tainly not. 



5016. What is your average or ordinary production 

 of roots? I should say an\ thing from 10 to 15 tons. 



5017. Do you grow chiefly turnips, swedes, or what? 

 edes and turnips. 



5018. Not mangolds? Yes, a few mangolds, but 

 not many. 



.Mi I;). Does not that seem to you to be a very low 

 production? It is not turnip land in Cleveland; it 

 is .strong land mostly. 



5020. But in the case of potatoes, is your average 

 yield just 5 tons? Yes. 



5021. You take that simply as an average over a 

 number of years? Yes. 



5022. Is that based on figures that you have taken, 

 or is it just conjecture? It is based on my own farm 

 and the opinions of others I have spoken to. 



"iO'JS. It really refers to what you have been able to 

 sell off your farm over a period of years? Yes. 



5024. Then in your costs you have allowed thn 

 manure applied to the turnip and potato crops to be 

 partly charged to the succeeding crop? That is so. 



5025. Is that the caso with any of the other of 

 your mamirings? It applies, I suppose, to a great 

 extent to nearly every crop. That is where the 

 difficulty comes in, in really estimating the actual 



of any crop. 



A :i 



