MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



49 



27 August, 1919.] 



MR. THOMAS C. GOODWIN. 



[Continued. 



war and your profrfc per acre now? I am afraid I 

 could not. I have not the books here that would give 

 me that. 



6490. When you were disturbed from the 300 acres 

 on one of your farms by the building of an aerodrome, 

 did you put in any statement to the War Office as to 

 the profits you were losing on those 300 acres? To 

 some extent. The War Office paid compensation as an 

 act of grace. 



6491. Do you mind telling us what you stated were 

 your profits on those 300 acres? We did not take 

 the profits on the whole of the 300 acres. You have 

 to prove direct loss, and the War Office pay, I think 

 it is, a year's rent, and so much depends upon the 

 time' at which the land is taken off you and when you 

 are allowed to cease cultivating. We did not get 

 any claim on that basis. 



6492. You did not put in any statement as to your 

 loss of income? Loss of profits on certain land we 

 did. 



6493. Do you mind telling us what that averaged 

 out at per acre? I could not tell you without the 

 papers. 



6494. You could not give us those figures? Not 

 from memory. 



6495. Are you not rather nervous about the im- 

 portation of foreign corn unduly nervous, I mean, 

 as to low prices? 



Chairman: I think he answered that question by 

 saying that he feared the reduction in prices of foreign 

 corn would interfere with the prices at which he was 

 able to grow corn in this country. 



649C. Mr. Green: Yes. I wish to assure Mr. Good- 

 win that freights have risen from America more than 

 four times. We got these figures just recently, and 

 the costs of production are apparently very much 

 heavier in America than they are here. I only put 

 tliat for your satisfaction, perhaps. You have a good 

 many grass farms in Cheshire, have you not? Yes. 



6497. What is the average size of these small grass 

 farms? I do not think I could give you the average 

 size. A very large proportion of the farms in Cheshire 

 are small farms under 50 acres. I could give them 

 to you in a moment or two. 



6498. I will ask you another question then. The 

 personal element comes in in keeping a few cows much 

 more than on an arable farm. That is your point 

 about a family working on a small farm? Yes. These 

 figures will show you directly the almost amazing 

 position in that respect in Cheshire. 



6499. With regard to efficiency of the men, do not 

 you think the efficiency largely depends upon the effi- 

 ciency of the farmer ; I mean, for instance, take the 

 neighbouring county of Leicestershire. The Board's 

 Reporters have recently reported to us that the 

 Leicestershire agricultural labourers complain of the 

 inefficient machinery and lack of organisation on 

 many farms as tending to affect adversely the output 

 per man and efficiency. Would you say that that 

 was true of Cheshire? Not to the same extent, 1 

 think, but it has the same effect. For instance, if 

 I could have the training of the older men from their 

 youth, I think I should benefit thereby. 



6500. These small farms could be made more re- 

 munerative, do not you think, by better transport 

 and more co-operation? Yes. 



6501. I want to ask you if you do not think a 

 system of continuous cropping might not be very 

 economically applied to the Cheshire farms for milk 

 production? If your land is suitable, possibly it may. 

 We are now just starting experimental work in that 

 way under the County Council, but the difficulty is 

 that the large proportion of Cheshire land is too 

 strong for the purpose, and certainly the labour 

 is very heavy under tliat system. 



6502. Do you believe in a system of keeping land 

 under the plough quite irrespective of whether the 

 ernp grown is corn or any other crop? I believe in 

 freedom of cropping. 



6503. I was wondering whether you had ever 

 entertained the idea, instead of guaranteed price 

 in order to keep more land under the plough, a 

 system of abatement under the Income Tax of more 



2R329 



land brought under the plough? That no doubt 

 would have an effect upon it. I have not considered 

 that point. 



6504. With regard to wages, I see that this Board's 

 Report states the wages in Cheshire in 1917 at 30s. 

 to 33s. for the ordinary labourer, and only 30s. for 

 the stockman, horseman, and shepherd. Can you 

 account for that? I cannot; I think there must be 

 <ome mistake. 



6505. Do you think those figures are wrong ? 

 Undoubtedly. The stockman and horseman always 

 get more. 



6506. Mr. Edwards : You made a statement to the 

 effect that farmeis have to look a long time ahead, 

 with which, of course, we all agree. Do you think 

 that the yearly tenancy which has prevailed in 

 Cheshire and most parts of the country gives the 

 farmer a real scopts for the development of the land? 

 Not under present conditions. 



6507. You have also said that a large number of 

 Cheshire farmers are being compelled to buy their 

 own holdings? Yes. 



6508. Would you venture to give an opinion as to 

 how many of these farmers are able to pay for their 

 farms without borrowing? I am afraid there are 

 very few. I mean I have no authority for speaking 

 on that question, but at the same time my opinion is 

 that there are very few. 



6509. What percentage do you think? I do not 

 know. It is a very difficult matter to answer. 



6510. In view of the fact that few of the farmers 

 are able to pay for the farms, what effect do you 

 think that is likely to have on the development of 

 farming in Cheshire in future? We do not know to 

 what extent that applies; it is a very difficult matter 

 to give an opinion upon, because I am not in a 

 position of knowing, generally speaking, what is the 

 farmer's position financially. I know one thing: 

 that no man strives and works harder than the 

 Cheshire farmer; but as to what effect it will have 

 on- the position in the future I am not very well able 

 to say, not knowing how the position stands at the 

 present time. 



6511. Now you admit, I suppose, that a Cheshire 

 farmer at any time has not too much capital to 

 handle his farm? I think the Cheshire farmer has 

 had quite as much capital of his own at his disposal 

 per acre as any other county farmer, and probably 

 more. 



6512. But the fact that he has to find capital to 

 pay for his land does not improve his position as far 

 as farming is concerned? It increases his difficulties 

 in respect to what we may term as the same thing as 

 rent; it puts up his rent doubles it in many cases. 

 Of course, everything depends upon how he is able 

 to buy his land. In some cases at auction he gets 

 run up by other people. If he is able to buy his 

 farm privately from the landowner, he may have 

 a better chance. 



6513. Do you think that some system of enabling 

 the farmer to obtain money for the purchase of his 

 holding in view of the present state of affairs would 

 help 'matters? I have no doubt it would help matters 

 very materially in many cases. 



6514. Mr. Duncan: Just on that point of buying 

 the farms, are there many of the farms being put up 

 to auction? Yes, many of them are being put up to 

 auction, but in some cases, of course, the owner gives 

 the farmer the first chance of buying it. 



6515. And who are those who are bidding usually 

 for the farms? Of course there are quite a number 

 of competitors. You get the County Council for one; 

 for small holdings; then you get the C.W.S. in some 

 cases, where they are closely linked up to then 

 branches; and you get the farmer himself. In some 

 cases you get farmers who have been thrown out, who 

 want the farm, and men who want pleasure farms ; 

 we get quite a number of those. 



6516. I should have thought from what you have 

 said that Cheshire was not a place for pleasure 

 farming if it is such hard work? You get the busi 

 ness man who comes down; ho does not work hard; 

 he comes for pleasure farming. You do get competi- 

 tion from that quarter. 



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