

UiiJini.n i;i 



-7 .l H yuMl, 1919.] 



Mil. TIIUMA- ('. 





tjjir. Hut the farmers are ottering thw* higher 



- tor limn- i \. n outside their OH n larins 

 tli.ro liirmcrs in the imuk.i wanting to get 1.1 

 If a i.irin.-i .> thrown out ol hi.s farm and li.i- 

 soiuewhcre, he i naturally on the look-out i< 

 bait bargain ho can make. II. li.i- _;! to m.ik. .. 

 :iving <>r trv to do so under KMIIC cireumstam . s. 



\iiii thc\ are buying the tend to farm itp 

 What else? 



"i.'U say thin in qiiiu> n iiiiinlMT of oases they 

 liave got to got money on lonn before they can buy 

 the farm? I nm not in a posit 'on to state thnt they 

 have to get money on lonn. hut I should judge so. 



.. thai in-ides tln> actual t'liriners who art 

 engaged in farming, those who have got money to 

 lend arc prewired to lend it on tin- prospects of farm- 

 ing even nt enhanced rent-- I take it that iiiyone 

 who lends money wants wM-urity other than tin 

 prospects ol agriculture; they wan! other security 

 than that. 



6521. What other security do they have- The man 

 must be able to offer some security in some way. and 

 there arc various ways of doing it. 



6522. If a farmer wanted to buy a farm and wanted 

 to raise part of the purchase price which he is r.ot 

 able to find himself, he goes into the money market, 

 .UK! naturally the security he has to offer is the 

 industry he is going into? Yes ; he has to take up 

 n mortgage and gives securities. 



..I. He takes mortgage on the farm? Yes, in 

 various ways. He has to hand over his policies and 

 that sort of thing. 



: So that tested in the ordinary market way. 

 people generally, fanners and others, think that farm- 

 ing is n sufficiently safe investment even at the 

 enhanced rente of Cheshire ? I think that the money 

 lent is on security already in hnnd; it must he of 

 ( ourse. 



6525. And quite independent of farming quite 

 independent of the subject on which the mortgage is 

 taken? To a large extent. 



0526. Is that the usual way business is done in 

 Cheshire when mortgages are got? I am not able 

 to answer that question from an outside commercial 

 i-oint of view. 



6527. You made the statement that a good deal of 

 increased productivity in farming was due to the 

 increase in machinery. In what particular direction 

 have we had an increase in machinery during the 

 war? We have had improved methods, and improved 

 machinery to some extent; Government tractors and 



kind of implement that has been made have 

 Wn brought into play to help the farmer in the 

 increased acreage of arable land a* evinced by the 

 large amount of that kind of machinery that is now 

 being put on the market. 



6528. Apart from the tractors, what was your 

 experience in Cheshire in securing either implements 

 or replacement of machinery during the war? I>o 

 MMI mean buying new machinery? 



' 652P-. Yes; was it difficult or easy? It was difficult 

 to get at times, certainly 



6530. Is there an actual increase in the amount of 

 machinery U'ing used on the farm apart from tractors 

 during the war period ? Yen. 



1 Will you specify the type of machinery thnt 

 :.i increase of cultivation during the warP 



just give you the particulars at the present 

 but all kinds of machinery that have ti 



in get t inn work through have been brought into play. 



C.Vtt. Hut has there been an increase of that 

 machinery during the period of the war? Yes; 

 people in some cases had no machinery at all, and 

 the\ bnve got machinery. In other cast* where they 

 bare hat) out-of-date machinery altogether, and ha\r 

 not been able to rope with the work, then they have 

 taken measure* to secure more efficient machinery. 



6583. And it has been possible to secure machinery P 

 You. There nre always difficulties more or lew; 

 they are worse at some times than at others. 



We have had an increase of productivity 

 luring the war at a time when it was difficult to get 

 machinery. Oo you think it likely thnt we .-an 



se the amount of machinery being used and 

 o increase the productivity ? I have no doubt that 



as time goes on there will IK* a gradual increase and 



improvement of machinery used in agriculture. 



5. Have you considered uhut the effect will lio 



ill" the increased rat< <.l wages in increasing the 



amount of machinery used on ihe (arms? Not the 



i t.iinly they will use every 



means to bring all machinery into play that u of 

 any value. 



(>.">.'!<>. If 1 put it to you that there hag been a 

 certain difficulty in getting nupnued machinery on 

 the farms previously, would that IK- due to th. 

 that labour was so cheap in the past that there was not 

 the same pressure on farmers to get lalioiir-saving 

 machinery:- On the most up-to-date farms, you see, 

 that machinery has generally been in use for a 

 great number of years. Then you always , 

 certain amount of land and farms that have not been 

 up-to-date, and they have been brought more up to 

 tile line. 



6537. What would be the proportion of up-to-date 

 farms? I could not give you the proportion. It is 

 very patent to the eye as you go about where the 

 up-to-date-farms are and where they are not. 



6538. Are one-half of the farms up-to-date? Yes, 



I should say so. I could not give you the proportion. 



i. Then with regard to the efficiency of labour, 

 is this a new difficulty that you are faced with in 

 Cheshire, that the labour is not so efficient as it was? 

 Is this the first time that complaints have become 

 ireiieral in the county;' It is more marked than ever 

 ill-tore. 



6540. Can you ever remember a time when the same 

 was not said as to the efficiency of labour? Yes. I 

 never heard so many complaints in my experience 

 previously ; of course, it is not a long one. 



ti.MI. I do not know whether you have ever read 

 reports of previous Commissions dealing with agri- 

 culture at any time during the last century, but I 

 have never seen a report in which the same com- 

 ]ilainl was not made. Is it not a complaint that has 

 always been made by the older men that the younger 

 generation coining up is not so good as the previous 

 generation was? That may have been so in the good 

 old days. We have not all lived in the good old days. 



I 1 would not be a report of a Commission if there 

 Here not Mime complaint of .some character. 



6542. Is it more than that in the meantime in 

 Cheshire? At the present time I think it is. 



6543. I put it to you that the period during which 

 you have had experience of high wages in Cheshire has 

 been a very short one, according to your statement, 

 just during ihe last year, you have been paying these 

 rates? Yes, but not compared with other counties. 



6544. I am not making a personal attack, but the 

 increase of wages has been very recent? That applies, 

 generally speaking, not simply to Cheshire. 



6545. Do you think you have had sufficient ex- 

 perience of the increased rate of wages to bo able 

 to say that the higher the rate the lower the effi- 

 ciency of the worker? We do not object to the 

 higher rate of wages. What we want is something 

 like reasonable hours and the work done. 



6546. Pardon me; but that i.s hardly an answer to 

 the question I put to you. The general trend of 

 your answers has been that the iin-Hiciency of the 

 younger workers is due to the fact that they are 

 now getting higher rates of wa^es, and I think you 

 put it in so many words by saying that they do not 

 realise that the higher tin- riute of wages the higher 

 the service. My question is. have y<m had sufficient 

 expel ienee ol these- higher rates to be able tn genera- 

 I so, in that way as to the effect of higher wages? 

 Our opinion can only be formed from the experience 

 we have had. 



6547. If I put it *o you that such investigations as 

 we have made as to costs do not show that in those 

 districts which have been higher paid the cost of pro- 

 duction the labour jvart of the cost of production 



i* no greater than in the lower paid districts; doe* 

 not that rather show that high wages do tend to 

 efficiency: 1 They should do certainly; but 1 am 

 afraid that lias not had full play yet in our district. 

 It has not had its effect. 



