MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



27 August, 1919.] 



MR. THOMAS C. GOODWIN. 



[Continued. 



in agriculture. Would it be possible to make any 

 differentiation as between two-horse land and three- 

 horse land as a practical proposition? I think so. 



6631. Do not answer hurriedly? Of course, it is a 

 point that would have to be considered. 



6632. Coming to your milk production, can you tell 

 me at all what the increase in the price has been that 

 you are receiving for milk as compared with what 

 it was in pre-war times I' I have not the figures by 

 me. I have not my books when I was producing 

 milk winter and summer. Mr. Sadler will be able 

 to give them to you, and Mr. Clarkson will be able to 

 deal with that subject more fully than I can, because 

 I am not practically doing it. 



6633. Do you in Cheshire buy many feeding stuffs? 

 Yes, we buy rather heavily. 



6634. I take it that the difference in the cost of 

 feeding stuffs now and pre-war is very, very high I' 

 Very high. 



6635. Have you figures to give me? I have not 

 Mr. Clarkson will give them to you ; but I know that 

 within the last few weeks they have risen pounds a 

 ton. 



6636. Linseed cake is 25 a ton? Yes, and then 

 by the time you get it 



6637. There is a great deal more on it by the time 

 you get it? Yes. All through the war in the fixing 

 of these prices for our feeding stuffs, there has been 

 so much allowed by the Government for the millers, 

 or whoever deals with it in the interval, to charge for 

 sacks. 



6638. That is right. I will ask Mr. Ciarksou about 

 that? As a matter of fact it is equal to so much a 

 sack on your stuff, because when you come to return 

 your sacks now we get about 4d. a-piece for them, 

 whereas we have been paying 9d., Is., and Is. 3d. 

 a-piece. 



6639. The extra that you have to pay on the sacks 

 and the loss you make nn the sacks, and the extras 

 vnii have to pay for getting the feeding stuffs from 

 the warehouse to the farm, make a very considerable 

 difference? Yes, a very considerable difference per 

 ton. It might just as well be placed on the stuff, and 

 then we should know what we are doing. 



6640. Will Mr Clarkson also have the difference 

 in the <xt of artificial manures? No, he has not 

 that. 



6641. Have you got it? I have only what is stated 

 here. You notice the difference heie. Superphos- 

 phates now are 6s. per cwt. We used to buy them 

 at 2s. 6d. pre-war. Then sulphate of ammonia is 

 now 1 per cwt. 



6642. Take nitiate of soda? We do not use that 

 ai much. It is going out of favour a great deal. 



6643. Howevr, you have not the exact figures? 

 No, but we could give them to you. Anything yon 

 require I will do my best to furnish you with, and 

 all particulars of that character. 



6644. I think you have answered this, but I am 

 not clear a bo- it it. The average wage before the 

 war was about 1 ? Yes, 18s. to 22s. 



')t;t.>. For how many hours? The hours worked 

 generally then were 66, I think. In some cases in 

 dairying it WHS half past 6 to 6. 



6646. I do not want the dairying particularly, hut 

 I want the 'average. What was a day's work in 

 Cheshire befoto the war what was the ordinary 

 week's work? Generally speaking, I think it would 

 be 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. It may have applied in some 

 parts, but my own experience pre-war was that my 

 wn men worked from half-pnst 5 to 6 and had 1J 



MI r.-. for meal-. 



6047. Sixty-*!* hours a week, we will say, for 1? 

 Yes. 



6648. What :* it to-day? 48s. for 54 hours; Is. an 

 hour overtime in the week ,and Is 3d. an hour on 

 >unday and harvest. 



6640. You would have to add that Is. an hour for 

 12 hours to mak.- up the total hours? Yes. 



650. That uoiild bring it to 60s. as against 20s.. 

 or jut 200 per cent, increase? Yes. Then thero is 

 . for the P.inday overtime. 



6651 . The Sunday overtime was not paid for before, 

 was it? No. 



6652. Has your Chamber considered at all as to 

 whether a guaranteed price for English cheese 

 would make the milk production more stable? I do 

 not think we have considered that point as a 

 Chamber. 



6653. It has never occurred to you? We have not 

 had a discussion on it. 



6654. Have you heard the suggestion made? No, 

 1 have not. 



6'655. If there was a guaranteed price for the cheese 

 in the summer, would that facilitate and make easier 

 the production of milk? It would prevent the 

 flooding of the market with milk at certain periods 

 of the year, in the summer time chiefly. 



6656. That is obvious; but I do not want your off- 

 hand opinion just now, unless you have really con- 

 sidered it? We have not considered it. That would 

 lie a point that would be considered more by the 

 milk producers than by the Chamber, I think. 



6657. Has the working of the fixed prices, as 

 carried out by the Food Controller, been satisfactory 

 to the milk producers in Cheshire? I think, perhaps, 

 Mr. Sadler would answer that question better than I. 



6657A. Mr. Ashby. I understood you to say a few 

 moments ago that you thought a guarantee for 

 cereals should be given for at least five years? Yes. 



6658. On the ground that farmers had to set out 

 their system of farming for at least that number of 

 years? Do you think as a financial policy it .would 

 be wise on the part of any large number of fanners to 

 set out a policy of cultivation on a five years' legisla- 

 tive guarantee for which there is absolutely no 

 further guarantee? For instance, the Government 

 may change, or the opinion of the public may change 

 in the meantime. Do you think that is sufficient? 

 It would certainly help very considerably. You see, 

 you want the present acreage maintained, and it 

 would help in maintaining that acreage very con- 

 siderably if wo had that guarantee. 



0659. But I am not considering for the moment 

 tho national interests; I am considering the farmers' 

 interests? Do not the two go together. 



6660. Do they? Are you quite sure about that? 

 They have some effect on one another. 



0661. Are you quite sure it would pay the farmers 

 of Cheshire to increase their cereal acreage and cut 

 out some of their dairy stock? You have to take 

 the system of farming that the land is suitable for, 

 and which we have carried out in the past. 



6662. Your laud is more suitable, perhaps, than any 

 other land in this country for dairying purposes? 

 Yes, for mixed farming. 



6663. But tho chief product is milk or cheese? 

 Yes, but there are fairly large arable farms. 



6664. Supposing that at any given time the market 

 is more or less against cereal farming, and you were 

 able to carry it on because of a legal guarantee 

 which through some change in public opinion or some 

 change in Government may be withdrawn very 

 shortly, or with three months' notice, or with no 

 notice whatever at the end of the stated period, 

 would not tho final position of the farmer under 

 those circumstances be worse than his first position? 

 It would certainly be bad. 



6665. I wish you would turn to some of your esti- 

 mates for a moment. In Table No. 1 there are oat-,, 

 double ploughing, autumn, 3<>s. an acre. That was 

 last year. Could you give me any idea how much could 

 be ploughed in a day?- Not an acre. It would be half 

 an acre, or a little over perhaps, under the present 

 hours. 



6666. How many horses? Two horses. 

 i;i;r,7. And one man? Yes. 



6668. You do not know, perhaps, what charge per 

 day per horse is in that figure? I have not taken 

 it in that way. I have taken it on the cost that the 

 ploughing was taking into consideration the man's 

 wages and the hoixe, allowing nothing, as was 

 mentioned by the previous Commissioner, for the 

 depreciation of horse and implements. 



D 4 



