MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



63 



27 Auffuit, 1919.] 



MR. J. SADLER. 



[Continued. 



to the employee, and I foresee great trouble and 

 anxiety on the dairy farmer's part, when he is bound 

 by train times and other unalterable conditions. 



The settlement on an amicable basis of the labour 

 problem and the security as to the ability of the 

 dairy farmer to carry on with a fair degree of comfort 

 lies at the very root of prosperous a-nd profitable 

 dairying and a full milk supply, and unless some such 

 settlement is made considerable numbers of the best 

 men will have to relinquish the business. 



(2) The Question of Transport. 

 The successful carrying on of the farmers' business 

 depends to a large extent on the question as to 

 whether he can get the goods necossary for his busi- 

 ness delivered to him cheaply and with regularity and 

 also get the products of the farm put on the market 

 cheaply, and, with regard to the more perishable 

 articles, with little delay so as to secure their delivery 

 in a good condition. 



With regard to the former the cost of delivci-y 

 whether by road, rail or water has increased very 

 much of late owing chiefly to traders' charges, 

 but the chief difficulty is in the delay, both as to 

 manures and feeding stuffs. This delay which has 

 M very serious, hampers him at every turn, 

 delaying his farming operations and checking pro- 

 duction. 



With regard to the marketing of his produce, much 



il occasioned, particularly to his milk and cheese. 



through delay, mishandling and unsuitable vehicles. 



obviously increasing the cost of production and adding 



to the consumers' price. 



The largely increased amount of requisites pf the 

 farm, brought about by more intensive farming. h;-s 

 not been provided for by any corresponding incrras.- 

 in transport facilities and if, as should be, maximum 

 pioduction in every direction is aimed at, the demands 

 upon the various methods of transport will be enor- 

 mously increased. 



I suggest the following: 



A more complete unification of the different 

 railway systems so as to minimise delay. 



A thorough re-organization of our waterways 

 to provide for the heavier traffic, such as grain, 

 hay and straw, manures, feeding stuffs and 

 cheese. 



Collecting depots for milk in every suitable 

 centre where under the farmers' own organization 

 carried on co-operatively milk can be efficiently 

 cooled, and where necessary pasteurised and sent 

 forward in large consignments instead of a multi- 

 tude of small consignments, effecting a large 

 saving in time, labour and utensils. 



Quicker and more convenient trains with a 

 better type of vehicle for milk, particularly in the 

 more remote district*, securing quicker and more 

 regular delivery of milk, and also the return of 

 empty churns, and reducing largely the very 

 serious quantity of sour milk, particularly in the 

 summer. 



(This concludes the evident e-in-chief.) 



t'h'iirman: Will you please begin to put questions 

 to Mr. Sadler. Mr. Green. 



6966. Mr. Green: You are the Secretary of the 

 Cheshire Milk Producers' Association and of the 

 Cheshire Chamber of Agriculture? Yes, and also of 

 the Cheshire "Dairy Farmers' Association. 



6867. Do you farm on your own account? Not now. 



6968. You have a large knowledge of the Cheshire 

 dairy farmers who are mostly small grass farmers, I 

 imagine. Are they very keen about the guaranteed 

 prices? I moan to sav they have to buy their bran, 

 their crushed oats and their meal for cows. . Do you 

 think the question of guaranteed prices, under the 

 Corn Production Act, rPally affects them very much? 

 Yes, and I should include cheese. 



6969. I was going to ask ynu about cheese. Is it 

 very easy to put up cheese appliances on your dairy 

 farim*; and now much capital would it require to 

 put thpm np. on an average sized farm? The capital 

 could be covorpd by perhaps 100. 



6970. On a farm the frige of Mr. Clarkson's? Yes. 

 I think so. T am speaking .rather hastily, but one 



25329 



never knows what the value runs to now, and there 

 is a better method. 



6971. You have some very interesting remarks about 

 transport. Do you not think a very good plan would 

 be to imitate the Danish plan, of a large lorry passing 

 the farm gate and collecting the churns and perhaps 

 taking the whole of the parish's or neighbourhood's 

 milk into the nearest market town? That would 

 cheapen the cost of production, do not you think? 

 1 am not sure it would cheapen it much. It is done 

 to a considerable extent in Cheshire and will develop 

 doubtless; but I am not sure that it cheapens the 

 cost of the transport, except in this way, that where 

 you have a number of small farmers, each one taking 

 his one can or probably at most two cans, that 

 man does not really reckon up what it costs him 

 to deliver his milk, either to the station or his cus- 

 tomer. My own opinion is that instead of costing 

 him a, half-penny a gallon on his dairy allowance by 

 the Government, it can cost him 2d. 



6972. You agree there would be a great saving in 

 labour? In regard to the small farmers, yes. 



6973. If you had water laid on generally throughout 

 the whole county, would it not be a great boon to the 

 small dairy farmers for cooling milk, butter, and so 

 forth?- -That is a public water supply. We have it 

 in a great many districts in Cheshire, but they do not 

 use it for cooling milk if they can possibly help it, 

 because it is not sufficiently cool. You get better 

 results from well .water. The public water supply 

 which I have myself experience of, is not anything 

 like as efficient for cooling milk as is the ordinary 

 well water. 



Hid. Hut it would save labour considerably on the 

 farm, would not it? No, I do not see it. If you have 

 a good water supply on the farm, it is better for milk 

 cooling purposes than a public water supply. 



6975. With regard to the cottage question, has your 

 county made any general application for cottages for 

 the parishes? Yes, there is a scheme on. 



6976. You seem to be rather adverse to the Saturday 

 half holiday, but I do not know whether you are? In 

 principle, I am absolute!}' in favour of it, and would 

 very much like to have it applied to myself too. But 

 I am very much afraid the difficulties of adopting 

 it on the dairy farms are almost insuperable. 



6977. Do you expect to get the young fellows to come 

 unless they get their half holidays? I will be quite 

 frank about it. The difficulty undoubtedly is in the 

 comparisons which are made by the young men and 

 it has been largely accentuated owing to the ex- 

 perience of the war who are working on the farms, 

 where, at present, they are staying until 4 o'clock 

 on the Saturday, and then are expected and hoped 

 for, but not always realised, on the Sunday morning 

 and the Sunday afternoon, and the men who are 

 working in other industries. It is a very serious 

 difficulty, and how to get over it I do not know. 



6978. I put it to you, you would not expect to get 

 the young men unless they have the half holidays 

 assured them? We shall either have to get them. 

 or a great many people will have to relinquish dairy 

 farming. That is the alternative. 



6979. But the class of workmen most difficult for 

 farmers to engage even before the war was milkmen, 

 do not you agree? On a dairy farm they are mostly 

 milkmen. 



6979A. Yes; but taking it throughout the country, 

 the most difficult class of workman to engage was a 

 milkman, because of the long hours and arduous 

 labour? Yes. 



6980. So that the only way is to make their lives as 

 comfortable as possible? Yes, without destroying the 

 industry. 



6981. "Mr. Thomas Henderson: With regard to your 

 first paragraph, you lay down a general principle that 

 the ordinary hours of labour should bo regulated by 

 the conditions controlling that industry? I presume, 

 in discussing these conditions and in formulating 

 them, you arc quite willing to recognise the wishes of 

 labour? Quite. 



6982. They are a consenting party to those condi- 

 tions? May I add one word? It is the natural 

 conditions that I refer to. 



6983. You want to amend your precis to that ex- 

 tent? I think after your question it looks as if it 

 wants amending. 



9 



