MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



65 



27 Auguit, 1919.] 



MK. J. SADLER. 



[Continued. 



you get intervals even with a 58 hour week of 10 and 

 14 hours between the milkings, which is rather further 

 than we ought to go in that direction. 



7016. Could not the whole system be organised 

 whereby the needs of the farm could be met so far as 

 the times of milking are concerned, and yet reduce 

 the hours? I am afraid not. I do not see how you 

 could do it. You would want additional labour at 

 your disposal, milkers, and that sort of thing, and the 

 additional milkers are not available. In fact they are 

 not go much available now as they were a few years 

 ago. 



7017. Do you know that in other industries when 

 those changes have been suggested, it has been very 

 frequently stated that the new arrangement could not 

 possibly work, but they have found ultimately they 

 could do it by applying their minds to it and finding 

 some way out? I have no doubt that is so. 



7018. Do not you think the same thing might apply 

 here in the course of time; that by some methods of 

 organisation, especially if you got better facilities 

 in transport, all these things could be worked satis- 

 factorily? I should be delighted if I could see my 

 way to favour such an arrangement, but I cannot 

 at the moment. 



7019. You would agree it is desirable to retain as 

 good labour as you can upon the farm? Yes. 



7020. And to do that you want conditions that will 

 be attractive? Yes, that is so. 



7021. In a reply to a question by Mr. Lennard, you 

 said you thought the men might return to the land 

 after their first disappointment with the towns? Yes. 



7022. Is not there a tendency that they might seek 

 to go further and emigrate, after their past ex- 

 perience? It is possible. 



7023. I mean men who have never left their own 

 surroundings view things differently after they have 

 had experience of travel, and possibly they will never 

 return, and therefore it is better to keep them when 

 you have got them? I quite agree in going as far as 

 possible in that direction. 



7024. Dr. Douglas: Did I understand you to say 

 that you were in favour of a guarantee for the price 

 of cheese? Yes. 



7025. Would not it be possible to fix anything like 

 an equal value for all cheese? It would have to be 

 graded. 



7026. And that would mean a guaranteed market. 

 A guaranteed price would involve a guaranteed 

 market, would not it? Yes, I think it would. 



7027. That is to say, the Government would need 

 to become the sole purchaser of cheese? Yes, it looks 

 like it at the. moment. 



7028. What is the object of that? I would like to 

 amend that answer. A minimum guarantee would 

 not involve the Government as a purchaser. It would 

 be on exactly the same basis as a minimum guarantee 

 for corn. 



7029. Yes; l>ut in giving the minimum guarantee 

 for corn, the Government does not become the pur- 

 chaser at all. There is no such average price for 

 cheese as there is for wheat, let us say, to serve as 

 a datum line? Yes, cheese can be imported from a 

 good many quarters of the Globe. 



7030. Obviously ; but there is no average price of 

 cheese struck, because cheese is of very various values, 

 is it not? Yes. 



7081. .Each farm lot of cheese would need to be 

 valued and graded separately, just as cattle are now. 

 is not that so? Yes, but it would not be a very 

 serious matter. Cheese that are made on farms have 

 a pretty regular quality. 



7039. Do you say that even adjoining farms make 

 cheese of similar quality generally? Not necessarily. 



7033. Are not there very great variations in the 

 skill of cheese makers? Yes. 



7034. WoulS you find that sometimes the difference 

 in value in normal times would be 30 per cent, of 

 the total value of the cheese? That might be so in a 

 very extreme case, but it would be very exceptional. 



7036. So that it would require skilled buying on 

 the part of the Government? If the Government had 

 to buy it would certainly. 



7096. If the Government guaranteed a price, it 

 would need to buy at that price, would not it? If 

 it guaranteed a minimum price I suppose it would 



26329 



have to make up the difference if the farmer could not 

 get that price. It would not necessitate the Govern- 

 ment buying I think. 



7037. If the seller failed to find a purchaser at 

 his price, he would then have a right to go to the 

 Government? He would be able to sell his cheese 

 at market price. 



7038. Yes; but I do not understand what your 

 scheme is. You have, no doubt, thought out how 

 such a scheme would be administered? No, I could 

 not say I have thought out a scheme. I am simply 

 speaking on the principle. 



7039. What would be the ground on which you 

 would advocate this? The ground that if you give 

 a guarantee for the. growing of cereals, there is equal 

 claim on the part of the dairy farmer to have his 

 cheese guaranteed. I see no difference. 



7040. You put it as a right of the farmer to have 

 a guarantee? As a right of the farmer if he is to 

 be kept on his legs in farming. 



7041. You put it that it is the farmers' interest 

 that is in your mind ? Not altogether. 



7042. But that is what you nave said? Yes; but 

 a farmer's interest in this respect is only leading 

 up to the Nation's interest. 



7043. You put it as a matter of equality of treat- 

 ment between two classes of farmers. You assume that 

 the ground of guarantees is to increase or assure the 

 profits of farmers. It is to increase production in 

 the first place. 



7044. Yes; but when you put it as a matter of 

 justice between farmers, that has nothing to do with 

 production. It is a question of equity between 

 different farmers? I am quite content to accept that 

 as a matter of equity between one class of farmer and 

 another, because the two classes of farmers are sub- 

 ject to the same sort of outside competition. 



7045. You put that forward definitely simply as a 

 protective policy for the dairy farmers? Yes, but 

 I would not confine myself to that. 



7046. And you think the State should undertake an 

 obligation to buy all cheese which may he produced, 

 whatever its value may be, at a minimum price? I 

 do not think so. 



7047. I have difficulty in understanding what you 

 do say ? I say that I have not worked out a scheme. 

 I simply content myself with saying at the moment 

 that the State should guarantee the cheese making 

 farmer a minimum price for his cheese to enable him 

 to compete with outside sources), just as the State 

 is asked to guarantee the corn growing fanner to 

 enable him to compete. 



7048. Has anyone ever advocated that the State 

 should guarantee a profit to the corn growing farmer ? 

 I never mentioned profit. 



7049. I think you answered one of my questions a 

 few moments ago in that sense. You do not suggest 

 that the corn guarantee has been advocated as pro- 

 viding a profit for farmers? The corn guarantee, 

 if I understand it aright, is to be given in order that 

 the land can be made and kept productive, and in 

 order that sufficient quantity of corn can be pro- 

 duced in this country, at any rate as near as we can 

 get, to provide for the needs of the population. I 

 do not say for a moment that we can supply thje 

 whole of tne needs of the population, of course. 



7050. And do you say a similar justification to that 

 of the Corn Production Act exists for guaranteeing 

 cheese? Yes. 



7051. Then I will take that as your reply. Is that 

 the same ground on which you advocate the Govern- 

 ment control of milk prices? No, it is not. I think 

 Government control of milk prices would be on a 

 different footing altogether. 



7052. Do you think the control of milk prices by 

 the Government ought to be made permanent? I 

 would rather it was not. 



7053. Do you think it would encourage production 

 to make that control permanent? I think perhaps it 

 would not. 



7054. Do yon think producers would like to have 

 their prices permanently fixed by Government De- 

 partments? They would rather be free as producers. 



7055. So that they would be more likely to pro- 

 duce, would they not? That seems to be a natural 

 corollary. 



E 2 



