MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



2 Stptember, 1919.] 



MR. CASTELL WKEY. 



[Continued. 



7837. That is a list of nearly everything you had 

 to buy? Of as many things as 1 could compare the 

 prices of in 1913-14 and 1918-19. 



7838. Up to what date in 1919 does it go!' There is 

 December, 1918, and January, 1919, for one item, a' 

 dandy brush. 



7839. You have not got the current prices of to- 

 day;' No, I have not. 



7840. That is what interests me most:' They do 

 not appear on the accounts I have presented. 



7841. What price, for instance, have you got lin- 

 seed cake at here! J I bought it in April, 1913, on one 

 occasion for 11 5s. Od. and in July for 9 10s. Od. 

 a ton and in November, 1918, at 19 18s. 8d. and 

 February of 1919 at 20 12s. 3d. 



784*2. The price to-day is about 26? Yes: 

 7~t:j. That does not go quite so far as 1 had hoped. 

 Take the price of sharps and middlings:' 1 have 

 bran in 1913 at 7 and in August. 1918, 15 15s. Od. 



7844. Have you got maize: 1 Yes, November, 1913, 

 1 tis. Od.; August, 19L8, 5. 



7845. Do you know what the price of it is to-day 

 if you could get it:' 1 do not think you can get it 

 at all to-day. 



7846. Can you give me the price of middlings or 

 sharps? No, I cannot. 



7*47. Or of maize gluten? \<>. 



7848. Do you know as a matter of fact that these 

 last items, middlings, sharps, and maize gluten, have 

 gone up 30s. a ton these last three weeks? No, I was 

 not aware of that. 



7849. Your list is helpful, but I wish it had gone 

 right up to date. I asked you a question about costs 

 and I gathered from what you said before that you 

 wanted to Bay something about costs. Then 1 is 

 nothing further that I want particularly, but I think 

 you wish to add something to what you said before so 

 you had better complete it? Will yon give me the 

 number of the question? 



7850. At question 4305 I said: " I should like to 

 discuss the question of costings with you the next 

 time you come here. You will come prepared with 

 the cost of growing an acre of wheat, and if you would 

 price out the operation I should be obliged to you, 

 if you would not mind taking the trouble." You 

 said: "I have got it all hern already," and I said I 

 could not follow it. Then I said: "If there is a 

 particular question that you want answered and you 

 will let me know through the Secretaries I will bring 

 the details with me." Then I said: " I want to see 

 the cost of the operation : how many times ploughing 

 and harrowing and sowing and so on all the way 

 down," and you said: "I have not got it here?"- 

 Thcn you asked for a full rotation and I answered 

 you that I could not give it you. 



7851. Yes, is that so still? Yes, I am afrakl it is. 



7852. You cannot add anything to that? No. 



7853. When I was questioning you a short time ag'o 

 you l>egan to mention something al>out costings and I 

 rather interrupted you. I think there is something 

 you wish to add about it? What I was thinking of 

 was some method of arriving at a cost of production 

 that would suit all England. 



7854. If you have anything to say about that will 

 you just add it? On thinking the matter over it 

 seems to me that any prices you can collect might be 

 useful taken arithmetically and used as a basis for a 

 future price. If you put your figure I. cannot say 

 at an average, but at a price which would eliminate 

 certain of the bad producers it would be doing no 

 harm to them you might stimulate the moderate 

 producer. Some farmers would be producing 7 

 quarters per acre and some only 3, and I should 

 fix my price to suit the man who grows 4 to 4^, and 

 stimulate the men from 3 quarters up to 4 ; the 7 

 quarter men do not want any help. 



' 7855. Prior to the war there had been an improve- 

 ment in farming. You will agree with that? Yes, 

 certainly. 



I -li.mM l> right in saying that farmers \\ <>< 

 at tb:ir tim. satisfied with their position?- Yes, I 

 think they were more satisfied then than at any time 

 I can remember in my life. 



7857. That is the view I take with regard to it. 

 Then we had the war, and we had Lord Selborne's 

 Committee ? Yes. 



7858. It was then for the first time authoritatively 

 stated that pressure was to be put on and every 

 inducement offered to farmers to increase production? 

 Yes, I think that is so, as far as I remember. 



7859. W 7 as it then pointed out that by so doing 

 farmers would be incurring considerably further risks. 

 Was not that at the bottom of Lord Selborue's 

 report that putting increased pressure on the farmer 

 and requiring increased cultivation from him would 

 subject him to increased risk from the world's prices 

 or the fall of the market? Yes, that is correct. 



7860. Was it not then suggested that for those in- 

 creased risks not risks of weather, but risks due to 

 competition from abroad the guarantee should be 

 given by way of compensation? Yes. 



7861. When the matter came into the House of 

 Commons Parliament insisted on a guarantee of 

 wages as well? Yes. 



7862. Is not the result that the guarantee of prices, 

 whatever its effect, was not given at the request of 

 the farmer, but at the instance of the State to secure 

 him against these risks and the further obligation 

 upon him to pay a fixed minimum rate of wages? I 

 am afraid I cannot answer that question without 

 studying the matter a little more carefully, but 1 

 think it is far more likely it was done by the State 

 with a view to increasing the production of food rather 

 than with a view to the prosperity of the farmer. 



7863. There is abroad among some sections of the 

 community an idea that the guarantee is solely for 

 the benefit of the farmer ? The general public have 

 quite got that idea. 



7864. You have given me your view, with which I 

 entirely concur, that the farmer was satisfied with his 

 position before the year 1914 and only wanted to bo 

 left alone? I think he was. 



7865. The guarantee was of no benefit to him excepr, 

 as a guarantee against a sudden fall in the world's 

 prices? The guarantee has up to now been of no 

 actual benefit to him at all. 



7866. Mr. Ashby : I am afraid these are matters 

 of political history, but do you not remember on the 

 outbreak of the war that some farmers' organisations 

 passed a resolution demanding a guarantee, and in 

 September, 1914, the farmers' representative in the 

 House of Commons asked Mr. Asquith if he would 

 consider giving farmers a guaranteed price for wheat, 

 and he said No? Were they important farmers' 

 organisations or just some small local organisations? 



7867. It came from the Central Chamber of Com- 

 merce. I should like to put one real question to you 

 with regard to this matter of production. I under- 

 stood you to say at the beginning of your evidence 

 to-day" that you thought large farms give a greater 

 production than small farms that one reason for 

 organising large farms was that the production of 

 large farms was greater? Yes. 



7868. Do you refer in that case to production per 

 acre or production per man? Both, I think. For 

 instance, in the case of a large farm if you see a 

 particular field going wrong you can splash down 

 1,000 for manure and bring it into condition. A 

 small farmer has not the capital to do that. 



7869. If you have a large farm you must have a 

 large capital, but it does not always follow that you 

 will have a larger capital per acre? No, you will 

 have a smaller capital per acre considerably smaller. 



7870. Yet you think you will get larger production? 

 Yes. I have gone very fully into that question in 

 this little txx>k of mine. I do not know whether you 

 have read it. 



7871. Chairman: You were kind enough to express 

 an opinion on the last occasion with regard to tho 

 efficiency of labour, and I remember you very kindly 

 said you would provide some evidence of the state- 

 ments you had made with regard to the efficiency of 

 labour. If you have that evidence with you I am 

 sure tho Commission will 1)6 glad to have it? In order 

 to bring this evidence before you I wrote to the Chair- 

 man of the Farmers' Union at Peterborough, Mr 

 Griffin, asking him if he could give me cases of wilful 

 deterioriation of labour, and he writes me as follow* j 



