98 



ROTAL COMMISSION ON AGBICULTUBE. 



3 S&tmbrr, 1919.] 



SIR RICHARD WINFREY, M.P. 



[Continued. 



actual figures of what this smallholder reckons it costs 



3147. Yos, but I am asking you whether this man 

 erer did grow 5\ quartersP 



8148. Yes, of barley, certainly; that is an extremal} 

 good barloy farm, as you know. 



8149. You are putting " as the- ayerage, I lake, .t 

 4J in 1913 and 5* in 1019. Do you really think that 

 farm will average 5 quarter, to the acre? Yea, I 

 think so; that is one quarter above the average for 

 Norfolk. 



8150. Now, turn to the grass land laid down 

 hav-that is tho fourth voar? Yos. 



151. Seed, 2 pecks, ifs. 6d.?-Yes. 

 8152. Have you any idea yourself of what grass 

 seeds cost this year? No I have not. 



8153 Would it surprise you to know that 

 possibl- to buy 2 pocks of small seeds under 2? Yes, 

 it would surprise mo if this man has not given me the 

 actual figures of what it cost him. 



8154 I am certain he has not, because it is an im- 

 posihility to buy 2 pocks of small seeds and sow a crop 

 which will return you a ton and a half of hay t 

 17s fd I expect what he means is a peck of heavy 

 nnd a p?ck of light 16 Ibs. to the peck of heavy seed. 

 That is the custom in Norfolk. Have you anything to 

 say on that? No, I cannot carry that any further. 

 Thnt is what he told me. I have always looked upon 

 him as a truthful man, and I was very anxious that 

 he should not either exaggerate or extenuate. I will 

 raise that point with him again certainly. f 



8155. Is the ton and a half of hay the yield given 

 for this year an estimate, or has it been measured in 

 the stack"? No, it is an estimate; ho has not sold any 

 yet in fact, I think he is going to consume it h m- 

 polf ; this man keeps cows. 



8156. You know we never had a drop of ram in .Ju 

 this year? V 



8167. I should not think there was a ton of hay an 

 acre grown on any field in Norfolk this year?- 

 says a ton and a half, and he puts it at 8 a ton. 

 That is what he considered the value to him. 

 sold it I suppose he would get 10 a ton for it to-day 

 or even more. 



8158. I wish I could bring myself to believe that 

 these figures are accurate ones and not estimates. I 

 should then have more belief in your belief in the 

 future prosperity of agriculture?- I am sorry to hear 

 vou take that view. I have no doubt about it i 

 ' 8159. No doubt about the figures? I have no doubt 

 about the prosperity of agriculture. 



8160. We all hope you are correct?- have nev 

 been so convinced as to its future prosperity as 1 

 have been since consulting with hank managers and 

 other people and hearing that agriculturists have been 

 able to pay off their mortgages and have got credit 

 at the. bank such as they have never had before in my 

 time. 



8161. What siso do you say this particular small- 

 holding in Swaffham is? I think ho hns about 

 acres, but I am not quite sure. He has some other 

 land that he hires. I am not sure whether tho whole 

 of the 24 acres belongs to us or not, but I think it is 

 a 24-acre holding. 



8162. I am sure you wish to give us every help you 

 can in this matter? I do. 



8163. I should like when this crop is threshed for 

 you to irivc- us proof positive of what these things 

 come to? Yes. I will do that if only for my own sake. 



!. And also with regard to tbeso few other 

 matters that I have picked out. if you will go into 

 Al and give u the- details. If you find there has 



te'in an gve u e e. 



been a mistake we will give you an opportunity of cor- 

 recting it. 1 think there must, bo some mistakp?- 

 Ye*. I will just mnko a noto of the. various points. 

 First of all you raie the question of the basic slag 



81ft">. You need not trouble to take n note of it; it 

 will all bo in the evidence. 1 am afraid I differ from 

 you very much as regards those costings. Wo an 

 only out for the truth? -Quite. 1 notic,- that when 

 Mr Hooding, who represent* the Norfolk Farmers' 

 I'nion. gave evidence here he said that the cost iif 

 growing an acre of wheat was 11 <ls. <1d. T put it at 

 13 16v fld. He also said that the cost of growing an 

 . was <* 17s. 3d. I have put it at 

 12 6. 6d., so that I am considerably higher in 



t 8e Appendix No. IV. 



my costings than the representative of the Nor- 



. ^rulers' Union, and so far as yield is concerned 



I am higher, and I say that the smallholder does 



than the big man. If you drive over Norfolk 



\.m .:iii so" it for yourself. 



8166. Have you been to Whissonsette recently? 

 No, not this season, but I have been to Watton not 



I visited a man there who went in in 

 1900 on a ;fci-:icn- holding. His capital was so small 

 then : I to trust him for two years for the in- 



ventory That mnn has now taken a 200-acre farm. 



8167. I should like, you to go down to Whissonsette 

 and hare a look at the smallholders' farms there as 

 you are so convinced that smallholdings increase pro- 

 duction. Do not think for a moment that I am in 

 any way against smallholdings, but you have said that 

 smallholdings do greatly increase the production in 

 Norfolk on the land that has been taken for small- 

 holdings. I can only advise you to go and look at 

 the Whissonsette smallholdings? You may find some 

 bad farmers there. 



8168. I am taking them as a whole. 1 do not w ish 

 t.i reflect for a moment upon your smallholdings at 

 Sv. all'ham. I believe thnt your Sv.alfham holdings 

 arc> fanned well. I wish to'make that statement at 

 once? Thank you. 



8169. Mr. Bntchelor: Can you toll us how many 

 acres are under allotments nnd how many are occupied 

 by tho smallholders? No, I could not tell that off- 

 hand, but, roughly. I think 1 might say that the i 

 about 200 acres which are let in small plots ranging 

 from 1 aero to 3. 



8170. Are these smallholdings, so far a tho pur- 

 c-h.i-es. say. of manures are concerned, wrought as one? 

 Does the AS-CH iation buy the manures for the whole of 

 the smallholdings? No. 



^171. They buy them all individually, do they? We 

 have no trading society in Lincolnshire as wo have in 

 Norfolk. The trading society that we have in Norfolk 

 does buy the manure' in the bulk and sell it out to the 

 smallholder a sack at a time, or whatever quantity he 

 requires. 



8172. In Lincolnshire each smallholder purchases 

 his own manure P- 



8173. That adds to the cost of manure as compared 

 with the large farm? No. Our trading society buys 

 their manure mostly from tho Wo-t Norfolk Farmers* 

 Manure Company at Lynn. 



-17-1. I am dealing with the Lincolnshire small- 

 holders; they buy their manure individually ?- 



8175. If you buy in small quantities you are charged 

 a higher rate than if you buy in large quantii 



I suppose they do lose a' little in that way, but 

 they are keen buyers. 



8176. I have no doubt the sellers are very MM 

 sellers? Yes. 



8177. Will you turn to paragraph (4^ the costs of 

 team and manual labour. Are those actually paid by 

 the smallholders ? -Will you toll mo what the cost of 

 team and manual labour is per day? I have given ymi 

 the manual labour. 



8178. Yes. Will you give us the team labour? I, 

 unfortunately, did not bring those figures with me; I 

 must supply thom.t 



8179. Thank you. Now will you go to potatoes in 

 the next paragraph? Tho only artifirial manure is 

 10 cwt. of superphosphates? There is the farmyard 

 manure. 



8180. I say the only artificial manure? Yes, that 

 is so. 



8181. There- was no sulphate of ammonia used 1'' 

 No. I specially a-kod him what manure he used, 

 and he s:ud he bought the superphosphates. 



8182. Were' those- potatoes sprayed ? They have not 

 been .sprayed this year. It might interest you to ln-ar 

 that for this .si-a*on spraying has done no good. I do 

 not say that, spraying is not beneficial. 1 only say it 

 just happens that' thi- year it has not clone any good. 

 I believe in spi I :! ' :l matter of fact I bought 

 n sprayer for these men this year, but, as I say, it 



not been 



8183. The cost of seed is put down at 15 ewt.. 

 5 5s. Is it English or Scotch seed? It is what 

 oalle-d second grown. 



at the nte of 7 per ton P Yes. 



t See Appendix No. IV. 



