104 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON AOKICULTUUK. 



3 StpUmbtr, 1919.] 



RICHARD WINFREY, M.P. 



I 



are now in existence because one of the great advan- 

 tage* that accrue to thorn. 1 think YOU will agree, 

 is that Uey have security of tenure at a fixed rental)' 



8860. A large farmer has not got that privilege? 

 Some of them have. 



8361. Some have for the time !. nu- of .ourso, 

 a good many farmers now, as you know, are buying 

 their holdings. 



- Quito which from the point of view of 

 economy is not a desirable thing 'if I am not sure of 

 that. 



8363. At any rate, it will mean that it will be at 

 an increased rental or interest on capital? -Yes, .but 

 that will make them produce more. Take the case 

 of the Thorney Estate which the Duke of Bedford 

 sold two years before tho war to the sitting tenants 

 a large estate near Peterborough. 1 guarantee 

 that that estate is producing per cent, more food 

 to-day than it did when those men were tenants of 

 tho Duke of Bedford, because they farmed at a 

 low rent and they only fanned up to their rent. Now 

 they have had to exert themselves and some enter- 

 prising men have' come in and on the whole it is 

 a good thing, I am sure. 



S364. I put it to you there is another vital reason 

 why they produce more on these particular farms. 

 Will you agree with mo that it is very largely in 

 consequence of their realising that what they do 

 nive-t in the land will remain in the land and that 

 they will be able to extract tho full value from the 

 land for themselves? Yes, and also they are not 

 subject to restrictions. There was a time, for 

 example, when tho landlord of the Thorm y Kstate 

 would not allow them to grow potatoes. 



8365. They are not subject after having improved 

 the fertility of the soil to have their rent increased 

 because of their own improvements:' That is so. 



8366. Or to be turned out? Or to be turned out. 



8367. You have told us that on this one estate of 

 1,000 acres you have 39 houses and families in hold- 

 ings of varying sizeP Yes. 



8368. You are able to let those holdings at rentals 

 of from 30s. to 60s. an acre? The grass land at 50s.; 

 there is no arable land as high as 50s. 



8369. What are the homesteads let at? The houses 

 are generally 10 ; we always put them in at a separate 

 rent because we want to show that the man would 

 have to live somewhere wherever he was, and. 

 therefore, we put the house and buildings in at 10. 

 It brings the land at- a little lower rent than they 

 are actually paying. 



8370. In the case of the crops you have put before 

 us it is the rental of the land as detached from tho 

 house? That is so. 



8371. With regard to the future, County Councils 

 arc buying up land or attempting to do so on which 

 smallholders, discharged soldiers ami sailors, and so 

 on may be put. Having to buy the land at the 

 present market value, which is an increased value as 

 you have told us, how will they be able to erect houses 

 and buildings upon it and be able to charge economic 

 rentals which will admit of the smallholders in the 

 future getting a living? By the State losing a great 

 deal of money. 



8372. Only by the State losing a lot of money? 

 That is all. 



I. Would you agree with me that to erect a 



tend at the present day comprising a house and 



buildings and so on for a farm of SO acres would 



coat approximately 1,000? Quite, if they put up 



decent buildings. 



8374. You would have to reckon at least 6 per cent. 

 interest on that? Yes. 



5. So that the rental of tho homestead instead 

 of being as it is in tho case of your smallholder 10, 

 would be 60 to the future smallholder?- Yes, but 

 the County Councils are not going to charge a rein 

 of M ; they arc (joinn to charge the smallholder a 

 fair rent and tho Government is going to benr the 

 ' - 



u know Governments change? Yes, but 

 you eannot change an Act of Parliament very easily; 

 I have never seen an Act of Parliament like that 

 changed in my 13 yean' experience. 



8377. Do you honestly believe that the somewhat 

 vague promise made by the present Government is 

 K.HHK to l>c honoured in, say, seven or eight years' 

 time- It is all in the Land Settlement Act and the 

 Land Acquisition Act, but I think the Land Acquisi- 

 tion Act is specially bad. 



8378. I agree with you. Quite apart from tho cost 

 of the house and buildings do you think that the 

 smallholder will be able to pay an economic rent on the 

 ptiivhase price of the land or will the State have to 

 bear a portion of that? What I understand thu 

 County Councils are going to do the Government 

 have set it all'out is to buy tho land at its present 

 war price and erect houses and buildings upon it 

 and then fix what is a fair rent and any loss is to be 

 borne by the State. 



8379. As to tho type of irnallholders to be put upon 

 the land, would you agree with me that it needs 



; rare in the examination of applicants 

 even in their own interest to decide whether the 

 men would be likely to make a success of it or not. 

 Let me put it quite clearly: many of tho soldiers 

 that are applying for smallholdings know nothing 

 whatever about the practical part of agriculture ?- 

 I was surprised when 1 interviewed the men from 

 one of the colonies at the big pen-outage of men who 

 had a previous knowledge of agriculture; there id a 

 small pcr'-eiitane who have not had any previous 

 knowledge of it, but they are arranging training 

 I arms for those men. 



8:iSO. Until the men are trained it is not wise 

 to put them on the land, is it? I do not think it 

 is in their own interests. 



8381. You aroused my curiosity when you gave us 

 particulars of the farm of 174 acres of which the 

 rent had been so greatly increased. You know that 

 farm yourself, do you? I do. 



8382. And you know that the facts you have stated 

 are accurate? Yes, I know tho facts; I have seen 

 the leases and the letters from the landlord putting 

 up the rent. 



8383. I want to bring out this point because yester- 

 day we had the question put to a witness and that 

 witness said that farm rents were not being in- 



,'d? I do not know what part of the country 

 he lives in. 



8384. Do you know of any Act of Parliament under 

 \\hii-h it is impossible for a landlord to in< 

 renN? No. The Corn Production Act says that he 

 shall not increase his rent because of anything in 

 that Act, but that Act has never come into force 

 as we have never got down so low as the guarantee 

 in the Act; the Act has been of no effect so far. 



8385. It is easy for a landowner to drive 

 through that Act? It is not necessary for him to 

 drive through it, because it has not come into opera, 

 tion. 



8386. Tho farm you refer to of which the rent had 

 been so largely increased was let in 1894 at 420 a 

 year 174 acres; that would bo about 48s. n acre? 



Tho lease expired in 1908 and it was then lot to 

 the farmer on another 7 years' lease at 560. At tho 

 end of that lease in 1915 he took it on yearly tenancy 

 at 660. 



S.'V-*". Could you tell us whether the tenant farmer 

 was willing to take it on another lea^-:- Me had 

 it on a yearly tenancy* at 660, and he wanted to 

 remain at that, and was quite prepared to remain 

 at that rent. 



8388. He was not prepared to take another 1 



He would have taken another lease at that rent, 

 but it was not offered to him. 



8389. 1 want to bo quite clear on this point? I 

 have no douht what happened was that the landlord 



in 1915 that land was going up, and, 

 then-fore, he said, " I shall only let it to you on 

 yearly tenancy." 



i. Is it your view that tenants would take 

 - of their farms if they bad tin- opportunity? 

 I am certain they would. 



8391. I put it to you, the reason they are not taking 

 leases of their farms is because they are not able 

 to obtain them; 1 Not at reasonable rents. 



8392. Landlords arc only too anxious to put their 

 land on the market and get these inflated prices 



