108 



BOTAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



3 Ipt4mlr, 1919.] 



SIR RICHARD WINFREY, M.P. 



[Continued. 



Society, of which I am Chairman, which has now a 

 turuuvur uf about 15,000 a year. 



8488. And yet the production has been greater than 

 whoa tin- land was in tho hands of a few? Certainly, 

 on all this land. 



84t>9. This co-partnership farm made a profit of 

 only 67 lli* lOd. iu 1913? That is so. 



-i. And in 1917 nmdo a profit of 1-732? Yes. 



8401. And what was the profit in 1918:- The profit 

 in 1918 was 500, 1 think. 1 am speaking from 

 memory. V\ e have had two profits of 500 and 

 one profit of 700 during the war. I am not quite 

 clear now which years they were. 



8494. Can you give us the figures for 1918? I 

 think, 500. 700 has been our high-water mark. 



8493. Did you not make a slip just now when in 

 answer to one of the Commissioners you said they 

 had more than 100 acres under fruit)* I said soft 

 fruit, 85. This is on the whole of that Winglaud 

 Estate; there are 113 acres under fruit to-day; that 

 is out of 1,000 acres, so that one-tenth part of it 

 is under fruit. 



8494. Is there any tendency to let the cultivated 

 laud revert to grass P None; it is much too valuable. 



8495. They broke up grassland when wheat was in 

 tho region of 30s. a quarter without any prospect of 

 guaranteed prices to give them any sense of security 

 against loss:' That is quite true. When we took the 

 first farm of Lord Lincolnshire called tho Willow- 

 Tree Farm in 1694, after about two years they asked 

 me if they might plough up certain fields, and 1 got 

 the consent of the landlord, and they were ploughed 

 up, and now we have ploughed up some more during 

 tho war. 



8496. I notice that in 1917 {hey sowed 967 acres 

 with corn out of 2,255. Is there any clamour for 

 guaranteed prices amongst these small holders? 

 None. 



8497. You are one of the authors of the Corn Pro- 

 duction Act, are not you? 1 do not think I can 

 assume the authorship of it, but as Parliamentary 

 Secretary my name was on the Bill, and I take my 

 share of the responsibility. 



8498. When you said just now that you thought 

 that 45s. should remain the figure for next year and 

 you thought farmers could live out of it, a guaran- 

 teed price of that figure, I suppose when you said 

 prices would fall, you meant the prices of fertilisers, 

 feeding cakes, and so forth, but not wages? No; I 

 do not think wages will fall. I do not think they 

 ought to fall, because I always held that we ought 

 to nave paid better wages in pre-war times, and could 

 have paid better wages in pre-war times. 



8499. Do you think that farmers would get better 

 machincrv and would organise their labour better 

 than in the past? They are already doing that. The 

 motor tractor has done a very great deal. We have 

 already purchased a motor tractor on the Wingland 

 Estate. 



8500. You would agree, I suppose, that compulsory 

 powers rather than guaranteed prices were the lever 

 to bring into cultivation a larger acreage of corn? 

 Vnit- HO; it was compulsion. 



8600A. Not the guaranteed prices? I nvght say on 

 reflection that when I said I would let the Corn Pro- 

 due tion Act take its course I was under the impres- 

 ion that tho price for next year was 55s., but I find 

 now on looking at the Corn Production Act that this 

 is the last year when wo guarantee 55s. I would 

 foro like to revise my suggestion, and I would 

 be quite prepared that it 'should be a guaran< 

 55*. next year. I certainly thought it had another 

 year to run nt 55*., until I looked it up. 



8501. Perhaps this is not a fair question to ask 

 you, but it is my last question. I suppose you rather 

 regret now that there is no c'auso in the Corn Pro- 

 dii'tion Act to prevent land'ordg from raining their 

 rents no effective clause? I think it is effective 

 inasmiirh as it nays they shall not raise them because 

 of any benefit they get out of the Corn Production 

 Act; therefore, it is effective in that way. 



.' Itut it if only effective on paper; it is not 

 reall- ' Hut the moment you let the Corn 



Production Act come into operation, it will be ell. <- 

 tive. 



8603. But the Government really allow the non- 

 producer to come off bent tinder thin Act, I mean tho 



landlord ; he ha* been able to raise his rents and breed 

 as many pheasants as he likes although tin- Govern- 

 ment is keen about the production of food?! think 

 the landlord with regard to game has played tho 

 game, during the war. 



8504. But he is still allowed to go on breeding P 

 'lit ho has very much reduced it. 

 . Hut there is no lau to pivveiit him from doing 

 so in the future? Not at all. That is what 1 fear. 

 Now that the war is over gamekeepers will be 

 appointed, and we shall have to go over the whole 

 tiling again. 



8606. 1 happen to know a small farmer who ha* 

 been evicted to give place to a gamekeeper? 1 am 

 not surprised. 



8507. Mr. J. M. Henderson: I understand that you 

 are satisfied with the Corn Production limit being 

 5;">s. ? Yes, for another year. Instead of it stopping 

 at 55s. in 1919, I think it might stop in 1920. 



8508. Have any of your people made any claim 

 under the Corn Production Act? No; because the 

 prices have always been higher than tho minimum. 



8509. For how many years would you suggest that 

 this minimum or guarantee should continue?- !' i 

 the period of the Corn Production Act, which is until 

 1923, I think. 



8510. You would not carry it further? No, I would 

 not at present. 



8511. \Vh<<n normal times come and foreign com- 

 petition begins to act, what then? That 1 should 

 leave to the future. I would not legislate too far in 

 advance. That secures the farmer till 1922; then I 

 would wait and see. 



8512. Your view is that at all events until 1922, 

 the world's prices will be considerably above the 

 guarantee that you suggest? I think so. I shall be 

 surprised if they aro not. 



8513. I made a suggestion I do not know how 

 it will strike you that if a guarantee should bo 

 given by way of insurance to the farmer for a 

 guarantee of 55s., and that for anything that they 

 sell beyond that value they should pay a premium to 

 the Government for their insurance of something like 

 Is. or 2s. a quarter, rising according to the high price. 

 I see you smile? You would have the fat in the fire. 



8514. I am not afraid of tho fat being in the !. 

 I do not think that is a workable proposition. 



8515. Lots of propositions do not seem workable 

 until you have tried them. Now you were speaking 

 about feeding stuffs. Of course, the price of feeding 

 stuff is abnormal, as we all know. Of course, you 

 know the true principal reason for the high price of 

 linseed oil cake? I suppose we have not been getting 

 our supplies of linseed at all from Russia. 



8516. We have not been getting any linseed at all 

 from Russia ; but when peace conies to that country, 

 I presume that linseed will come in and these prices 

 will go down? I hope so. 



8517. But I take it from you that from your ex- 

 perience you yourself do not take a pessimistic view- 

 er 1 the prospects of the farmers raising cereals in this 

 country? I do not; on the contrary. 



8518. Mr. Thtuniii ll(n<l<i-*nu: You stated that you 

 took over, 1 think, 1,000 acres from the Crown firpt 

 of all for the purpose of small holdings? Yes. 



8519. And previously these 1,000 acres were culti- 

 vated by one farmer and 10 labourers? Y 



8520. And now you have 39 families and allotments, 

 as a matter of fact? Yes. 



8521. How many people does that represent I' 

 think the total number is 290 persons altogether. I 

 think we have close on 80 tenants there altogether. 

 I can supply you with tho exact figures if you wish.t 



8522. If you please. Did these .smallholders intro- 

 duce any changes in cultivation on that piece of land? 



Ye*. When we took this land over 10 years ago 



it was practically farmed almost in a four-. 

 system. The fanner did grow a few potatoes, not 

 a great many. The whole of this 100 acres of fruit 

 has lieen planted, and that is the chief alteration in 

 the industry. \\'e are now producing many tons of 

 raspberries, strawberries, black currants, apples, and 

 plums, which are now coming into full hearing. 



t >SVe Appendix No. IV. 



