114 



liiiYAI. < i'M\|I-v|,,N ,,\ AdKI'Tl.TI KM. 



, 1919.] 



SIR RICHARD WINFIM v. M 1' 



Tor,/,,,,,,,/. 



holdings? I think you mid .-omothing about them 

 hiring gone in without any capital nnd paid so much 

 year? Yes. I had in 'mind at that time a man 

 iiitinwl Huylock nt Walton, who took n farmhouse 

 and 30 arm of land. Ho was nn agricultural 

 labourer, and 1 think ho h is reared 10 children in 

 thin house. Ho had such n small amount of capital 

 that w> tru-ted him with his tenant right for two 

 years, which ho then repaid to us. He has now dur- 

 ing the war taken a 300 acre farm from Lord Wal- 

 t ingham ; and we hare admitted his soldier son. who 

 ha* just been demobilised, into the father's small 

 holding, and that has been done in IP years. 



8080. You stated that you were quite content to 

 trust the future, if the 06fc was extended another 

 year. Is that the opinion of the men who are on 

 these holdings? As far as I have gathered it, I do 

 not think these men want any subsidy. They have 

 no fear for the future not one of them. I have 

 discussed it with lots of them, and I cannot find any 

 man who has any fear for the future. 



8881. And yoli' do not think there is in the mind 

 of the small holder any lack of confidence in the 

 future T' No. 



8682. Would you say the same of the farmer? 

 In their heart of hearts I do not think they have. 



8683. You mean that they do not always express 

 what they really think? that is so. If they can 

 get anything out of the Government, of course they 

 will. 



8684. In regard to those future prices, of course on 

 the figures you have produced these holdings "would 

 not show a profit if the costs remain the same? That 

 is BO. 



8685. But is it your opinion that the prices of 

 corn can only go down at the same time other prices 

 go down which produce costs? Directly the prices of 

 corn go down, the cost of team lalxuir will go down. 

 It is horses which eat so much of the corn ; and if 

 they are eating oats at 60s. or 70s., it makes team 

 lalwuir very expensive indeed, and. after all, it is 

 the team labour which is the most expensive labour. 



8686. 1 noticed Mr. Cautley put this question to 

 yon, but did not seem to follow it up sufficiently ; and 

 I wanted to know whether it was in your mind thnt 

 the price of corn could Dot go down without the cost 

 of keeping horses and generally the cost of the work 

 on the farm also going down? Yes| that is BO. 



8687. In your experience have you come across any 

 element, outside of the farmers or small holders 

 themselves, that might be developed to help farming? 

 Take the question of transport as nn illustration. l)o 

 you know of anything beside transport that might be 

 developed which would help it? Of course there are 



niiiuy wins in which we might and ought to help 

 agriculture. 1 have a hunt' tract of beautiful lain! 

 in inv (x)ii-t itiiem \ . where tin- mad- are iffiDMsible 

 in winter. If a man dm-, nut thresh directly after 

 harvc-t and get his corn in anil get whatever the 

 market price i- then, lie- i~ done until the spring. 

 I have thousands of acres like that in my eonstitn. 

 Now vim may take all that land round the .Marsh dis- 

 in Lincolnshire as being very similar. That is 

 the question of transport. Then of course with regard 

 to railway faciliti<-. there again wo might help. 



8688. And you think the industry could ! consider- 

 ably helped in that direction:-- I am sure it could. 



8689. Which in the end might reduce the cost of 

 production-' Would reduce it. 



t'li'iii mini: Dr. Douglas wishes to ask a supple- 

 mentary question. 



8690. Dr. Douglas : I want to go back on one or 

 two questions which were put to you. and were not 

 in your original evidence. For example, you t \ 



an opinion in favour of Land Nationalisation. It 

 wa- Mr. I/angford who led me up to it, and he asked 

 me what remedy I suggested, and I said Land Nation- 

 alisation; and, of course, I believe Lund Nation 

 tion would be a remedy . 



8691. I do not want to examine you on that subject 

 at this late hour; but I want to put it to you that 

 you have not put forward in your evidence any 

 scheme on that subject? No. 



8692. You would not expect this Commission to 

 consider it in the absence of that? No, I do not 

 think it is ripe for settlement. I am a member of 

 the Land Nationalisation Society ; but I want to do 

 it piecemeal. 



8693. We could not consider tho matter without 

 having a scheme put before us? Quite. 



8694. And that would apply also to any compre- 

 hensive treatment of land tenure, would it not? 

 Yes, of course; and of Land Courts. 



8695. Then one other point. You have spoken of 

 the great appreciation of rental in consequence of 

 the improvement of agricultural prices. I suppose 

 you agree that rent is in large measure an interest 

 on capital spent on equipping land? Yes. I never 

 suggested that the landowners are getting an un- 



nablo interest. I do not think they . 



8096. That is what T wanted to ask you. Do you 

 surest the proprietors now are getting somcthin" 

 more than a normal rate of interest, such as would 

 he obtained on an industrial investment ? I certainly 

 do not. I think before the war they were gettin. 

 a good deal. 



I'ltnirman: We are very much obliged to you. You 

 have given us most interesting evidence. 



(The'Witneii withdrew.) 



Mr. FALCONER L. WALLACE, late Investigator to 



8697. Chairman: You have been kind enough to 

 giro us certain statements of evidence, which 00 

 of a printed statement and particulars as to tho cost of 

 growing an acre of wheat, and a letter of yours of 

 the 23rd August. MM 1 ), with a excerpt from your 

 report upon wage's and conditions of employment of 

 agriculture in Northamptonshire in March, li'ls." 

 I pin these in as part of your evidence-' Yes. I 

 also, if I may say to, gave a largo bundle of very 

 <! statement* and individual nc'-ounts. which I 

 was unable to get copied in time, to the secretaries. 

 which are in their office. They are actual state- 

 ments from which I have compiled these statistics, 

 and a great many points which may ex-ur to some of 

 the gentlemen on the ('omniis<Ji(Hi in connection with 

 the .tntistien can be answered bv reference to the 

 >|i tailed statements in which I have ib scribed the 

 y*tem of farming upon the individual farms, the. 

 land, the condition, of pay, nnd the labour employed 

 upon thone farms. There are also several cc. 

 production last y-nr of several --rops in detail. There 

 i .1 very itn|K>rtnnt statement showing the . 

 producing meat on n feeding farm in Northuiiiher- 

 l.md with .'very single item, the whole of the pro- 

 - being worked out in detail, and a great many 



* Set Appendix No. Y 



the Agricultural Wages Hoard, called and examined. 



interesting statements in connection with all the 

 's of farming. 



Evidence-in-chirf handed in by Witnrs*. 

 8698. Importance of Cnpitnl. In considering farm- 

 ing profits, it may be borne in mind that" much of a 

 farmer's profits are derived from selling and buying 

 at the psychological moment. It is then ra 

 understand one reason why the farming busineHs thnt 

 has an ample working capital has such :i great aihan- 

 tage over the business that is less fortunately ispiip- 

 l"'d. It is unquestionable that farming was. up to 

 MM I, for a great number of years immensely handi- 

 capped through being under capitalised. Not only 

 did farmers have to iN.ar constantly in mind the 

 necessity of having something to sell alxmi n-ni time, 

 which tended to restrict their operations, but the fact 

 that most of their working capital had I .. be found in 

 the form of a bank overdraft prevented many farmers 

 from cultivating their land to the lx*t of their 

 ability. 



1 I'.iri'ciWr RcM/i/j.-Tho great variations in 

 the financial results upon farms which are all approx- 

 imately equally well farmed in their respect IM -i\l. , 

 lire probably accounted for by the great dill 

 there in in the rx*t of cultivating variou-. 

 soil; by the- fortune's of the markets ami 

 in a given year in relation to the style' of farnnV 

 the business abilities of the different fan. 



