120 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



S toptombtr, 1919.] 



MR. FALCONEK L. WALLACE. 



[Continued. 



28m, below the present fixed price* if left to thom- 

 aelrea. Do you still hold to thmtP I have not a view ; 

 it is pure guocswork. 



i were itimply taking this as a aort of 

 rough baaia for talking to these people? Yea, that 

 WM ao. 



)&36. One other point on your Interim Report. :n 

 your paragraph headed " The Burden of Overtime 

 Pay in Kainy Diatricta." You refer to the burden of 

 overtime in rainy districts. I should like you to 

 explain a point there. la not it the case that over- 

 time rates are paid only after the minimum weekly 

 hours have been worked? Yea. 



8837. So that this picturesque little sketch P 



The point ia this. I will give you an example of it. 

 Supposing you havo a man whom you cannot em- 

 ploy all any owing to weather conditions; thnt is to 

 aay, you have to pay him whether he is working or 

 not. It is n wet day, and there is very little work to 

 do on a wet day. I do not say that there is no work, 

 bnt often very little to do. I hail Cumberland in my 

 mind, whrro it happens constantly ; you get rain 

 throughout the day and you cannot gather the hay in 

 and cannot drive in your corn. Then you get a beau- 

 tiful evening, bright and sunny and breezy, and you 

 turn out nnd load your corn or nay, whichever the case 

 may be, anil you have to pa v overtime. It is a very 

 serious burden. It is very difficult in a climate like 

 thnt. whereas in the South or the Midlands of 

 England YOU can generally count on a fine day in tho 

 Rummer. You nee my jxiint. With a very changeable 

 climate like that, it is a very grave burden. 



- 1 ijuite agree: but what is tho custom in Cum- 

 berland? They work the customary hours, do they 

 not ? Yea. 



8839. How does overtime come in? They have to 

 work overtime just the same. I cannot remember 

 at the moment, without referring to tho book, what 

 the hours in Cumlterlaiid are. 



I, They are the customary hours? -But, then, if 

 they work overtime, they hove to pay for it. 



**ll. But the point is, they have actually worked a. 

 full day? No. My point is they have actually not 

 worked the full day in that climate. 1 saw it myself 

 when staying there. Owing to these showery condi- 

 tions, they sometimes do not do much work in the day. 

 r.nd they cannot get in their hay till the evening, when 

 tl.ey have to pay overtime rates. It is a great burden. 

 It is the same thing in the whole country to a modified 

 degree. Now you have this change of daylight, you 

 cannot get into the hay in the early morning because 

 it is dewey, and the overtime begins early in the even- 



8842. I will leave the matter of overtime and hours 

 to some of my English colleagues; but you are pro- 

 posing in effect that all the burden of the eccentricities 

 of the climate is going to be flung on the farm ser- 

 vant. According to your own showing, the farmer 

 beans the little vagaries of fortune? I am merely 

 trying to )>oint out that it is very difficult to legislate 

 equitably for the whole of the country at once, and 

 there ought to he varying conditions in varying 

 climate*. I say it is not fair to apply the same condi- 

 tion* to a county like Cumberland, of which we have 

 spoken, as would apply to a county like Northampton- 

 shire, sav. 



' Yet. yon admit yourself that the Cumlterland 

 farm is much better and much more profitable than 

 the Northamptonshire farm? It is better farming. I 

 hare not said it i* more profitable. 



8844. There is one point Mr. (Irccn asked you about. 

 You said there was no general denire for village lifi 

 in the Northern Counties on the part of the workers:* 



-That I found to be the case. 



8845. You are referring to England, of courae? 

 The Border Counties. 



RR46. And Scotland, too? Yes; I should say Scot- 

 land, too. I do not think they like village life so much 

 either there. 



You are aware that a great many of the Scot- 



'nrm workers ohj<-ct very much to' the isolated 



tied houw- No ; I have not come across it in my part. 



- V' / . ' . 1 1. ., .., i;,,,,. oarMJff 

 Y. - 



8*49. Would you agree with me that the wages paid 

 to the farm workers ore considerably below those paid 

 io other Industrie*? Yea; I should aay, on the whole, 

 they are. 



8860. Do you agree with mo that the hours worked 

 l.y throe men are considerably longer than the hours 

 worked in other industries?- -That variea so much. It 

 varies very much in different parts of the country. 

 It depends how many hours you take out for meals 

 and rest; and also the actual time of beginning and 

 ending variea very much. 



8861. I am taking the total hours for the week. 

 Arc not they longer than in any other industry prac- 

 tically? I could not answer the question off-hand. 



8852. Is it your experience that there is a shortage 

 of farm workers at tho present time? Do you mean 

 all over? 



8863. Right throughout the country? Yes. on the 

 v. hole in England. To some extent there is a shortage, 

 too, in Scotland, I should say. On the whole, I 

 would say there is a shortage. 



8854. Do you agree' with me that there is a large 



number of men unemployed at the pi- nt time? I 



do not know; but I will accept \<>ur statement if you 

 sav there are. I havo not found a great many my- 

 self. 



8855. What is likely to attract more men to the 

 land higher wages and shorter hours, or what? 

 Better housing, for one thing; that is the hicf thing. 



8856. Single men do not want houses of their 



I mentioned that in one of my reports. I think 

 there is a great deal to be done in the education of 

 |M>\S. I think there is nothing to attract a boy in 

 going on to a farm, in England especially. If you 

 take Northumberland, he is reared up in his family 

 where every member of the family works on the farm. 

 Tho girls) work till they get married, and so on. But 

 if you take anywhere in the Midlands or the South 

 of England, what happens to the boy when he goes on 

 the form? He is probably put with the horseman, 

 and probably does not care twopence alxnit horses. 

 He has the earliest and latest hours worked on the 

 farm with the horseman. He. generally cheek* the 

 carter, or something or other happens, and hi 

 into trouble with him. There are no steps ever taken 

 to give him a liking for farm life. For instance, if 

 only in their school days they could manage to- train 

 them, and give them a liking for farming by giving 

 them classes upon a neighbouring farm, or having 

 a County Council farm tea-hing them the skilled 

 operatioiis like thatching, hedging, and ditching. You 

 will find in my reports of different meetings. I asked 

 boys why they had never learned to be skilled men ; 

 and they said they never got the chance of learning, 

 that the old hands did not take the trouble to teach 

 them. I think a great deal can be done by educat- 

 ing boys to give them a liking for farm life. Take one 

 village. A boy takes it into his head to go as a 

 policeman, and another boy goes as a policeman ; 

 then the whole lot of boyd go. In the next village 

 you find they goto the railway; and so they follow 

 each other like a flock of sheep. If only you -y>uld 

 get them interested in the farm work and get them 

 to learn the more skilled work of tho farm earlier 

 in their life. I think it would go a long way to help 

 to attract them. I gave an illustration in one of my 

 leports, I think in the Buckinghamshire report* of an 

 experiment which a very enlightened farmer there 

 made in the way of educating hoys. :md the good 

 n ults which came from it. I venture to draw your 

 attention to it. It is a very interesting illustration 

 of my meaning. 



8857. Thisi matter of education is going to be tackled 

 by tho various education authorities throughout tho 

 country? I am very glad to hear it. 



8858. Taking the important commodities produ-cd 

 from the farm, say, as compared with coal and 

 machinery, do not you think that the rate of wages 

 are too low- to attract these men to come to this in- 

 ilii^rv, and that they ought to he brought up to 

 the level of other industries?--! think that if you 

 give a man a good home and a good garden, he Mill 

 be content to work in the country for considerably 

 less) wages than he will be in a town. 



1 Hut you want to attract the younger men 

 on to the farms, do not you;' I think that will go 

 a long way toward 1 ; it. I place the greatest emphasis 

 possible upon a good bouse and a good garden. It 

 will form one of th" greatest possible attractions to 



* See page 12. " Wages and Conditions of Employ- 

 ment in Agriculture." Vol. II., Reports of Investi- 

 gators [Cmd. 25]. 



