124 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICDLTUBK. 



3 Stfltmbtr, 1919.] 



MR. FALCONER L. WALLACE. 



[Continued. 



8943. Would that not account for the agricultural 

 labourer* often putting somebody else in official posi- 

 tions in their I munsP No, I do not think so a bit. 



8949. Mr. Anker Simmons: You agree that one of 

 the beat things that could happen would be, to im- 

 prove the status of the farm labourer? Yes. 



8950. "Tho proposal put by Mr. N it-hulls just non- 

 falls in with your own views P Rewarding a boy by 



firing extra nay if he has a certificate or diploma is, 

 think, an admirable suggestion. 



8951. I have often spoken on the same question. 

 Do you think ft would be possible to differentiate 

 in UM same way that there is a differentiation between 

 the bricklayer and his labourer, that that is a differen- 

 tiation by having a more or less qualified farm 

 labourer who should take a status somewhat equal to 

 that of the ordinary mechanic? They do, do not 

 theyP I mean, in England you pay your horse- 

 man, cattleman and your shepherd, more than you 

 pay the ordinary labourer. 



8953. They do and do not. I nm one of those who 

 believe that the feminine influence has a vory great 

 deal to do with every side of life; and what 'I have 

 in my mind is this: that a domestic servant v, ho is 

 " walking out," as they call it, with A mechanic, 

 rather boasts of it against her fellow domestic servant 

 who is '' walking out " with a farm labourer. Do 

 not you think that, indirectly, that has a good deal 

 of influence in keeping men away from farm labour, 

 and that that would be rectified, to a great extent, 

 if there could be a class of farm labourers who would 

 hold as good a status as the ordinary mechanic? I 

 do not know what the farm labourers would say to 

 that. It would rather slight some of them, would 

 it notP 



8953. Could it not be brought about by a system of 

 apprenticeship? Yes; if you begin when they arc 

 young, certainly. I think that will be merely carry- 

 ing on the same system of rewarding the small boy 

 who has got a diploma, so Ihat when he grew to be a 

 man you would reward him by having another dip- 

 loma, and so on. If you could do that, it might assist 

 matters. 



8954. A system of apprenticeship always appeared 

 to me to be the way out of the difficulty? But I do 

 not think the farm labourer is looked down upon now 

 as ho was before the war. I think that is one of the 

 changes the war has brought about. 



8955. I hope it will prove to be so. I do not want 

 to repeat questions, but I want you seriously to con- 

 sider this. Do you think it would be in the interests 

 of agriculture as an industry, if this Commission 

 decided that some kind of guarantee is desirable, for 

 it to recommend a guarantee which would really in- 

 volve a profit P That is the same question of guaran- 

 tee against loss or guaranteeing a profit. 



8956. I am asking it again for this reason, that I 

 am a little doubtful in my own mind as to whether 

 you have really weighed the importance of that ques- 

 tion? I am not prepared to give an answer now. It 

 is a very very difficult question indeed. I do not think 

 it will be enough to guarantee against loss only. 



8957. I should bo glad if you would reconsider it; 

 because the decision of a witness like yourself on this 

 point, would be valuable after reconsideration P I 

 have seen the point discussed; and my feeling all 

 along has been it would not lie- sufficient, but I am 

 nnt prepared to express a definite opinion. I should 

 like to talk to a great many people about it. It is a 

 very difficult point indeed. 



8958. Then with regard to the difference in valuo 

 o far as the output of work is concerned botwoon 

 your farm labourer and Cumberland, and your fnrm 

 labourer in Berkshire, do not you think me climatic 

 condition* have a great deal to do with the amount of 

 work which the men are able to perform? The cli- 

 matic conditions in Cumberland are horrible. It is 

 the most relaxing place I was ever in in my life. 

 Whon I was there it seemod to be always raining. 



8959. It may rain; but that would apply to - 

 land? No; I think the thing is that thev give them 

 such good food. Thev have splendid meals, and they 

 nn- remarkably well done. 



8960. Wo have had a number of men down South 

 from the North, and my experience has been that 

 they commence by working harder and producing 



more output than our southern men do, but in a \ erv 



short nun- they get down to lint level of l!i- sonlli 

 count- I li.u.- heard that before. S< 



people have told mo that has been their experience. I 

 think very likely, comparing the south country cli- 

 mate with the north country climate, omitting ( um- 

 berlaml, that has something to do with it. Then- 

 is a change of food, and a generally slack atmosphere 

 among the other workmen too. 



8961. You do not consider it would be practicable to 

 adopt the Cumberland system of living in of farm 

 labourers? No. It is really very objectionable from 

 the point of view of the farmer, and the workers 

 would much prefer to have houses. They all have 

 to go away now when they get married. 



8962. It is not a system you would recommend ?- 

 No, I do not recommend it; but I attach great im- 

 portance to the very good living. I am quite sure 

 they live a great deal better than they would do if 

 they had to buy their own food. 



8963. In the papers that we have not yet seen 

 dealing with the cost of production of different crops, 

 can I take it the tignrcK are based U|M>II estimai 

 upon actual costs of production aM-crt-aincd from the 

 farmers that you visited? Take questions like plough- 

 ing, harrowing, drilling, and so on? There is one 

 case I have given there which I made up last year in 

 Northamptonshire. I took it from my own books as 

 the actual costs. There are other costs I have given 

 there, which were given to me by other people, such 

 as for instance, the Farmers' Union ; and they did 

 not give the details of all the operations. 



8964. One more point. I think the information you 

 give us in these, pages where you deal with farm 

 accounts will be of great valuo to us; and, in order to 

 make it quite clear, is this lost column intended to 

 show to us what the effect would be on the farmer 

 to-day, who found himself face to face with the prices 

 which prevailed in 1914, and with the present charge 

 that he would have to meet for agricultural labour? 

 Exactly. 



8965. In taking them out, I notice that, practically, 

 it means 25 per cent, of those farms will work at a 

 loss, and all of them at considerably less profit than 

 in 1914? Yes. that is so; and of course I have not, 

 taken into consideration the reduction in hours. I 

 took the May, 1919 wages ; but I did not reduce the 

 hours. 



8966. Mr. Ai-hby. Following Mr. -Anker Simmons' 

 last question ; when you were arriving at these figures 

 you did not allow for any reduction in the staff of 

 the farm, did you? No. 



8967. Was it your general experience as an investi 

 gator, that there had been considerable reduction in 

 the staff of the farms? Between which dotes? Do 

 you -mean since 1914? 



8968. Yes? Certainly there hnd. There has been 

 a great reduction since 1914, during the war period. 



i. Is it not most natural whenever you have .1 

 considerable, increase in rates of wages, that there 

 should be an attempt at least to reduce the si a If: 

 I.ooking at the statistics which T have got out. of the 

 amount of labour employed per 100 acres. T do not see 

 that they can reduce it much more. They certainly 

 cannot farm woll if they do. 



8970. They cannot reduce it more than they have 

 reduced it? No. I think they are below the proper 

 mark now. 



8971. Even KO, they may manage their fnrms with 

 less labour than they had in 1914? Yes, they 

 managed to do it during war time It has been very 

 sketchy farming. An awful lot has been neglected, 

 as. for instance. ditches have been left, hedges havn 

 not been cut, weeding has l>cen allowed to go. You 

 cannot call it farming. They did the best they 

 could : but they could not povsihly continue to farm 

 with the same quality nnd number of staff that was 

 employed during the wnr. In consequence of the 

 rifluclion of labour then, they have arrenrs to catch 

 up. 



8972. You were verv much impressed with the effi 



< ieru-v of fhe Cumberland farm workers? Tho north 

 country form workers ; T do not mean only Cumber- 

 land. 



8973. Were you not also impressed by the high 

 proportion of young men in those counties P There 



