CONGRESS, U. S. 



261 



provinces, just as all nations levy them upon 

 provinces and nations they conquer. If my 

 views and principles are right, I would not 

 only collect that tax, but I would, as a ne- 

 cessary war measure, take every particle of 

 property, real and personal, life estate and re- 

 version, of every disloyal man, and sell it for 

 the benefit of the nation in carrying on this 



Jar. Wo have such power, and we are to treat 

 em simply as provinces to be conquered, and 

 as a nation fighting in hostility against us until 

 we do conquer them. I can arrive at no other 

 conclusion, To me it is a great absurdity to 

 say that men, by millions, in arms, shall claim 

 the protection of the provisions of the Consti- 

 tution and laws made for loyal men, while they 

 do not obey one of those laws, but repudiate 

 their binding eifect. There never was a prin- 

 ciple more clear than that every obligation, 

 whether in a national or civil point of view, in 

 order to be binding, must be reciprocal ; and 

 that the moment the duty ceases upon the one 

 part, the obligation ceases upon the other ; and 

 that, in my judgment, is precisely the condi- 

 tion of the rebel States now." 



Mr. Yeaman : "I am so much astonished at 

 the doctrine I am now hearing, and I feel so 

 much interest in this thing, rfOt only as a .ques- 

 tion of > constitutional law, but in view of the 

 influence which these announcements may 

 have upon this controversy, that I hope the 

 gentleman will allow me to ask another ques- 

 tion." 



Mr. Stevens : " Certainly." 



Mr. Yeaman : " Does the gentleman hold, or 

 does he not, that the ordinance of secession 

 passed in South Carolina was legal under the 

 Constitution of the "United States? " 



Mr. Stevens : " I hold thatit was an act of 

 treason and rebellion." 



Mr. Yeaman : "I would ask further whether 

 the backing up of these ordinances of seces- 

 sion by armed force imparts to them any val- 

 idity ? " 



Mr. Stevens : " I hold that so long as they 

 remain in force against us as a belligerent 

 power, and until they are conquered, it is in 

 fact an existing operation. I will not say any 

 thing about its legality. I hold that it is an ex- 

 isting fact, and that so far from enforcing any 

 laws, you have not the power." 



Mr. Yeaman : " "What I want to know is 

 whether these people are now citizens of the 

 United States, or whether they are an inde- 

 pendent nation; and if the latter, I want to 

 know where we derive our right or authority 

 to wage war against them, and to tax them to 

 support that war, all of which 1 am in favor 

 of." 



Mr. Stevens: " I hold that the Constitution, 

 in the first place, so far operated that when 

 they went into secession and armed rebellion, 

 they committed treason ; and that when they 

 so combined themselves as to make themselves 

 admitted as "belligerents not merely as men in 

 insurrection, but as belligerents they did ac- 



quire the right to be treated as prisoners of 

 war, and all the other rights which pertain to 

 belligerents under the laws of nations." 



Mr. Mallory : " Will the gentleman yield to 

 me for a moment? " 



Mr. Stevens : " Certainly, sir." 



Mr. Mallory : " I would inquire of the gen- 

 tleman from Pennsylvania with what propriety 

 he can speak of these men at the South who 

 are engaged in this armed resistance to the 

 United States as rebels, or as disloyal men, 

 when he distinctly stated just now that he 

 thought that the duty of obedience and the 

 duty of protection were reciprocal, and that 

 when protection is not afforded by the Gov- 

 ernment, the citizen is not bound in allegiance 

 to that Government? Does not his doctrine 

 release these men from all obligation to the 

 Government of the United States, which is not 

 protecting them from the confederate govern- 

 ment ; and has he therefore a right to punish 

 them by the confiscation of their property, or 

 by hanging them as traitors, for the acts which 

 they have committed ? " 



Mr. Stevens : " All these crimes were com- 

 mitted before they became belligerents ; before 

 they had acquired the status of a belligerent 

 power, and compelled us to treat them as bel- 

 ligerents for instance, as prisoners of war." 



Mr. Mallory : " I would ask the gentleman 

 from Pennsylvania if the Confiscation Act does 

 not apply to those crimes which have been 

 committed since the commencement of the 

 armed resistance which, in his doctrine, con- 

 verted them from traitors and rebels into public 

 enemies. It cannot, therefore, refer to crimes, 

 as the gentleman says, which were committed 

 before this armed resistance was made, and our 

 relations with the Southern States became the 

 relations of one belligerent nation to another." 



Mr. Stevens: "I suppose that bill refers to 

 a continuation of what was commenced before. 

 My own notion is, sir, that we have a right to 

 treat them as we would treat any other prov- 

 inces that we might conquer. Now, sir, I do 

 not know but what the President looks upon it 

 in that light." 



Mr. Maynard : " This discussion has become 

 very interesting ; and I would like to ask the 

 gentleman whether he holds to the theory that 

 this is a Government of the American people, 

 or whether he holds that it is simply a com- 

 pact between separate, independent, and sov- 

 ereign States ? " 



Mr. Stevens : " Well, that is an abstract 

 question. It haSxbeen well settled heretofore." 



Mr. Maynard: "If he holds to the latter 

 view, I can well conceive why he should hold 

 every individual citizen in each particular 

 State responsible for all the acts committed by 

 the State authorities. If he holds to the for- 

 mer hypothesis, I would ask him how any cit- 

 izen can lose his rights under the Constitution, 

 wherever he may be found, excepting by his 

 own act, or by the regularly authorized act of 

 the Government through its different branches, 



