IMPEACHMENT. 



369 



President, by whom signed, was left to be 

 shown from the documents themselves. 



A letter of the President's of August 14, 1867, 

 in compliance with the requirements of the 

 eighth section of the Tenure-of-Office Act noti- 

 fying Mr. McCulloch that he had suspended 

 Mr. Stanton, and that General Grant was author- 

 ized to act as Secretary of War ad interim, was 

 read. Also, messages of his, announcing the 

 suspension of other officers. The case on the 

 part of the House was closed. Judge Curtis 

 then requested an adjournment till Thursday, 

 which was carried, 37 to 10. 



April 9. Mr. Butler put in the letter of 

 General Thomas, accepting the office of Secre- 

 tary of War ad interim, and evidence of the 

 suspension of Foster Blodgett, a Georgia post- 

 master, which suspension had not been re- 

 ported to the Senate. Mr. Curtis opened the 

 case for the defence. 



April 10. Mr. Curtis finished the opening 

 for the defence. 



TESTIMONY IK DEFENCE. 



General Thomas was called, and testified as 

 to his services as Adjutant-General, his being 

 sent for on the 21st of February, by the Presi- 

 dent, and of his being handed by the President 

 a letter dismissing Mr. Stanton and one ap- 

 pointing himself Secretary ad interim, and that 

 at this interview the President declared his de- 

 termination to support the Constitution and 

 the laws, and his desire that witness would do 

 the same, and that Mr. Stanton, when the office 

 was demanded of him, at first only asked if he 

 would be allowed time to remove his private 

 property, but later sent the General a letter for- 

 bidding him to issue any orders as Secretary 

 ad interim. That on the 22d of February he 

 was arrested at his house before tfreakfast, and 

 was taken by the officer at his request to see 

 the President. The remark of the President, 

 when informed by General Thomas of his ar- 

 rest, was objected to, but admitted, 42 to 10. 

 He said, " Very well : that is just where I want 

 it, in courts." Mr. Stanton and General 

 Thomas drank together at the War Office after 

 the members of Congress were gone. The 

 words, "Kick that fellow out," were first used 

 by the witness, Karsner, and repeated jocularly 

 by Thomas to get rid of him. The President 

 never authorized or directed him to use force, 

 intimidation, or threats to get possession of 

 the War Office (objected to, but allowed). On 

 cross-examination, witness said he had aban- 

 doned the idea of using force before" he was 

 arrested ; was recognized by the President as 

 Secretary ; attended Cabinet meetings ; never 

 gave advice there, except as to a plan to get 

 rid of Stanton, submitted to the President 

 about March 13th. The President said he would 

 let it rest till after impeachment. 



April 11. General Thomas corrected his 

 testimony of the 10th. When the President 

 was told of Stanton's answer to the demand on 

 him for the War Office, he said, "Then go 

 ahead, and take charge of the office," instead 

 VOL. vin. 24 A 



of " possession." General William T. Sherman 

 was called to show declarations of the Presi- 

 dent to him January 27th, at the time of ten- 

 dering him the place of Secretary of War ad 

 interim. This was objected to, and ruled out, 

 against the opinion of the Chief Justice (based 

 on yesterday's decision as to the conversation, 

 after the event, with Thomas), 23 to 28. The 

 question was put in various forms ; but all of 

 them were ruled out. 



April 13. General Sherman was asked 

 whether, after Mr. Stanton was restored to 

 the War Department, he had formed his opin- 

 ion, and communicated the same to the Presi- 

 dent, that the good of the service required an- 

 other Secretary of War. Objected to, and 

 ruled out, 15 to 35. 



Senator Rever-dy Johnson proposed a ques- 

 tion, whether, at any time before the order for 

 Mr. Stanton's removal, the witness had advised 

 the President to appoint some other person 

 than Mr. Stanton. Objected to by Senator 

 Drake, and decided inadmissible, 18 to 32. 

 The warrant of arrest of General Thomas, dated 

 February 22, 1868, and the affidavit of Mr. 

 Stanton on which the warrant issued, was ad- 

 mitted over objection, 34 to 17. 



Senator Johnson proposed a question, wheth- 

 er, when the office of Secretary of War ad in- 

 terim was tendered to the witness, General 

 Sherman, by the President, on January 27th and 

 31st, the latter at that very time stated what 

 his purpose in so doing was. Objected to, but 

 admitted, 26 to 22. What did he state his 

 purpose was? Objected to, but admitted, 26 

 to 25. The President said that the relations 

 between Mr. Stanton and himself, and the other 

 members of the Cabinet, were such, that he 

 could not execute his office as President with- 

 out making provision ad interim for that office, 

 that he had the right under the law ; he 

 claimed to have the right, and his purpose was 

 to have the office administered in the interest 

 of the army and country, and offered the wit- 

 ness the office in that view. Witness asked 

 him why the lawyers could not make a case. 

 The President replied that it was found im- 

 possible, or a case could not be made up ; but, 

 said he, " If we can bring the case to the 

 courts, it would not stand half an hour." 

 Witness, being asked if he had answered as 

 to both occasions comprised in the ques- 

 tion, said: "The question first asked me 

 seemed to restrict me so close to the purpose 

 that I endeavored to confine myself to that 

 point alone. On the first day or the first in- 

 terview in which the President offered me the 

 appointment ad interim, he confined himself 

 to very general terms, and I gave him no defi- 

 nite answer. The second interview, which 

 was on the afternoon of the 30th, not the 31st, 

 was the interview during which he made the 

 points which I have testified to. In speaking 

 he referred to the constitutionality of the bill 

 known as the Civil Tenure-of-Office Bill, I 

 think, or the Tenure-of-Civil-Office Bill, and it 



