370 



IMPEACHMENT. 



was the constitutionality of that bill which he 

 seemed desirous of having tested, and which, 

 he said, if it could be brought before the Su- 

 preme Court properly, would not stand half an 

 hour. "We also spoke of force. I first stated 

 that if Mr. Stanton would simply retire, al- 

 though it was against my interest, against ^my 

 desire, against my personal wishes, and against 

 my official wishes, I might be willing to under- 

 take to administer the office ad interim. Then 

 he supposed thafthe point was yielded; and I 

 made this point, ' Suppose Mr. Stanton do not 

 yield ? ' He answered, ' Oh ! he will make 

 no objection ; you present the order, and he 

 will retire.' I expressed my doubt. I then 

 begged to be excused from giving him an an- 

 swer, to give the subject more reflection, and 

 I gave him my final answer in writing. My 

 reasons for declining the office were mostly 

 personal in their nature." 



The following questions were then asked 

 and answers given : 



" Did the President, on either of the occa- 

 sions alluded to, express to you a fixed resolu- 

 tion or determination to remove Stanton from 

 his office ? " 



" If by removal is meant a removal by force, 

 he never conveyed to my mind such an im- 

 pression ; but he did most unmistakably say that 

 he could have no more intercourse with him in 

 the relation of President and Secretary of War." 



"You say the President spoke of force. 

 "What did he say about force? " 



" I inquired, ' Suppose Mr. Stanton do not 

 yield, what then shall be done?' 'Oh,' said 

 he, ' there is no necessity of considering that 

 question; upon the presentation of an order he 

 will simply go away,' or 'retire.' " 



The docket entries of the case of United 

 States v. Lorenzo Thomas were put in. 



The nomination of Thomas Ewing, Sen., 

 of Ohio, as Secretary of War, dated February 

 22, 1868, was put in with evidence that it was 

 received by the Executive Clerk of the Senate 

 the same day. 



April 14. The court adjourned, on account 

 of Mr. Stanbery having been taken ill. 



April 15. The President's message of Feb- 

 ruary 24 (see PUBLIC DOCUMENTS), in reply to 

 the Senate resolution as to the removal of Mr. 

 Stanton, was rejected, on the simple ruling of 

 the Chief Justice. 



A list was ordered to be printed as part of 

 the proceedings, although not as evidence, 

 which was prepared at the Attorney-General's 

 office, and showed, with certain exceptions, 

 approximately all other executive and terri- 

 torial officers of the United States, now and 

 heretofore, by statutory designation, with their 

 respective statutory tenure. 



Documents were put in evidence, from the 

 Department of State, relating to the removal 

 of Mr. Pickering, in addition to the letters put 

 in by the managers. 



A correction of the evidence as to the nom- 

 ination of Mr. Ewing was made. The nomina- 



tion was sent to the Senate, February 22d ; but, 

 the Senate having adjourned, it was not de- 

 livered to them till the 24th. 



A certified copy of the appointment of Mr. 

 Nelson, Attorney-General, as Secretary of 

 State ad interim, during the session of the 

 Senate, by President Tyler, on the death of 

 Mr. Upshur, until a successor should be ap- 

 pointed, and the nomination and appointment 

 of Mr. Calhoun to the place, were next put in 

 evidence. Similar papers in the case of Gen- 

 eral Scott, appointed Secretary of War ad in- 

 terim, during the session of the Senate, by 

 President Fillmore, and the appointment and 

 confirmation of Charles M. Conrad, as Secre- 

 tary of War; an appointment of Mr. Moses 

 Kelley, Secretary of the Interior ad interim, 

 by President Buchanan ; a copy of the com- 

 mission of Mr. Caleb B. Smith in the same 

 office, from Mr. Lincoln ; a copy of a letter 

 removing the appraiser of the port of Phila- 

 delphia, by direction of the President, signed 

 by Mr. McClintock Young, Acting Secretary 

 of the Treasury, August 17, 1842, were all 

 read. A schedule, showing the practice of 

 the Navy Department as to removal, the same 

 not being a copy from the records, but an ab- 

 stract of their substance, was ruled by the 

 Chief Justice to be competent in substance, and 

 within the discretion of the Senate as to form, 

 admitted, 36 to 15; and a list from this same 

 department of civil officers appointed for four 

 years under the statute of May 15, 1820, and 

 "removable from office at pleasure," who were 

 removed as indicated (by the President), their 

 terms of office not having expired, was put in. 



A statement from the Department of State, 

 showing the removal of officers not only during 

 the session of the Senate, but during the recess, 

 and covering all cases of vacancy, the purpose 

 of the evidence being to show the practice of 

 the Government coextensive with the necessity 

 that arises out of the different cases death, 

 resignation, sickness, absence, removal. It 

 differs from the schedule put in by the mana- 

 gers, which covered certain heads of Depart- 

 ments only, because that applies only to re- 

 movals during the session of the Senate. Ob- 

 jected to, as having reference only to the acts 

 of 1791 and 1795, but admitted, as were similar 

 documents from the Department of the Post- 

 master-General, showing the removals of 

 postmasters during the session of the Senate, 

 and ad interim appointments to fill the places, 

 and the appointment, by President Buchanan, 

 of St. John B. L. Skinner, as First Assistant 

 Postmaster-General ad interim, February 8, 

 1861, and the same appointment by- President 

 Lincoln, September 22, 1862. Mr. Buchanan's 

 message to the Senate, explaining his appoint- 

 ment of Mr. Holt, Secretary of War ad interim, 

 in place of Mr. John B. Floyd, resigned, was 

 read (against objection), together with a list 

 annexed of the names of those persons, as 

 shown by the records of the Department of 

 State, who discharged the duties of officers of 



