654 



PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 



published in the Chronicle, between the President 

 and General Grant, and especially to that part of it 

 which refers to the conversation between the Presi- 

 dent and General Grant at the Cabinet meeting on 

 Tuesday, the 14th of January, with a request that I 

 state what was said in that conversation. 



In reply, I have the honor to state that I have read 

 carefully the correspondence in question, and par- 

 ticularly the letter of the President to General Grant, 

 dated January 31, 1868. The following extract from 

 your letter of the 31st January to General Grant is, 

 according to my recollection, a correct statement of 

 the conversation that took place between the Presi- 

 dent and General Grant at the Cabinet meeting on 

 the 14th of January last. In the presence of the 

 Cabinet the President asked General Grant whether, 

 "in conversation which took place after his appoint- 

 ment as Secretary of War ad interim A^Q did not agree 

 either to remain at the head of the War Department 

 and abide any judicial proceedings that might follow 

 the non-concurrence by the Senate in Mr. Stanton' s 

 suspension, or, should he wish not to become in- 

 volved in such a controversy, to put the President 

 in the same position with respect to the office as he 

 occupied previous to General Grant's appointment, 

 by returning it to the President in tune to anticipate 

 such action by the Senate." This General Grant 

 admitted. 



The President then asked General Grant if, at the 

 conference on the preceding Saturday, he had not, 

 to avoid misunderstanding, requested General Grant 

 to state what he intended to do ; and further, if in 

 reply to that inquiry he (General Grant) had not re- 

 ferred to their former conversations, saying that from 

 them the President understood his position, and that 

 his (General Grant's) action would be consistent with 

 the understanding which had been reached. To these 

 questions General Grant replied in the affirmative. 



The President asked General Grant if, at the con- 

 clusion of their interview on Saturday, it was not 

 understood that they were to have another confer- 

 ence on Monday, before final action by the Senate in 

 the case of Mr. Stanton. 



General Grant replied that such was the under- 

 standing, but that ne did not suppose the Senate 

 would act so soon ; that on Monday ne had been en- 

 gaged in a conference with General Sherman, and 

 was occupied with " many little matters," and asked 

 if General Sherman had not called on that day. 



I take this mode of complying with the request 

 contained in the President's letter to me, because my 

 attention had been called to the subject before, when 

 the conversation between the President and General 

 Grant was under consideration. 



Very respectfully, your obedient servant, 



ALEXANDEK W. BAND ALL, 

 Postmaster-General. 



To the PRESIDENT. 



DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, ) 

 WASHINGTON, D. C., February 6, 1868. [ 



SIB : I am in receipt of yours ofi yesterday, calling 

 my attention to a correspondence between yourself 

 and General Grant, published in the Chronicle news- 

 paper, and especially to that part of said correspond- 

 ence " which refers to the conversation between the 

 President and General Grant at the Cabinet meeting 

 on Tuesday, the 14th of January," and requesting me 

 " to state what was said in that conversation." 



In reply, I submit the following statement : at the 

 Cabinet meeting on Tuesday, the 14th of January, 

 1868, General Grant appeared and took his accus- 

 tomed seat at the board. When he had been reached 

 in the order of business, the President asked him, as 

 usual, if he had any thing to present. 



In reply, the General, after referring to a note which 

 he had that morning addressed to the President, in- 

 closing a copy of the resolution of the Senate refusing 

 to concur in the reasons for the suspension of Mr. 

 Stanton, proceeded to say that he regarded his duties 



as Secretary of War ad interim terminated by that res- 

 olution, and that he could not lawfully exercise such 

 duties for a moment after the adoption of the resolu- 

 tion by the Senate. That the resolution reached him 

 last night, and that this morning he had gone to the 

 War Department, entered the Secretary's room, bolted 

 one door on the inside, locked the other on the out- 

 side, delivered the key to the Adjutant-General, and 

 proceeded to the headquarters of the Army, and ad- 

 dressed the note above mentioned to the President, 

 informing him that he (General Grant) was no longer 

 Secretary of War ad interim. 



The President expressed great surprise at the 

 course which General Grant had thought proper to 

 pursue, and, addressing himself to the General, pro- 

 ceeded to say, in substance, that he had anticipated 

 such action on the part of the Senate, and being 

 very desirous to have the constitutionality of the 

 Tenure-of-Office Bill tested, and his right to suspend 

 or remove a member of the Cabinet decided by 

 the judicial tribunals of the country, he had some 

 time ago, and shortly after General Grant's appoint- 

 ment as Secretary of War ad interim, asked the Gen- 

 eral what his action would be in the event that the 

 Senate should refuse to concur in the suspension of 

 Mr. Stanton, and that the General had then agreed 

 either to remain at the head of the War Department 

 till a decision could be obtained from the court or 

 resign the office into the hands of the President be- 

 fore the case was acted upon by the Senate, so as to 

 place the President in the same situation he occu- 

 pied at the time of his (Grant's) appointment. 



The President further said that the conversation 

 was renewed on the preceding Saturday, at which 

 time he asked the General what he intended to do if 

 the Senate should undertake to reinstate Mr. Stan- 

 ton, in reply to which the General referred to their 

 former conversation upon the same subject, and said, 

 " You understand my position, and my conduct will 

 be conformable to that understanding ; " that he (the 

 General) then expressed a repugnance to being made 

 a party to a judicial proceeding, saying that he would 

 expose himself to fine and imprisonment by doing 

 so, as his continuing to discharge the duties of Sec- 

 retary of War ad wterim after the Senate should 

 have refused to concur in the suspension of Mr. Stan- 

 ton would be a violation of the Tenure-of-Office Bill. 

 That in reply to this he (the President) informed Gen- 

 eral Grant he had not suspended Mr. Stanton under 

 the Tenure-of-Office Bill, but by virtue of the powers 

 conferred on him by the Constitution ; and that, as 

 to the fine and imprisonment, he (the President)would 

 pay whatever fine was imposed and submit to what- 

 ever imprisonment might be adjudged against him 

 (the General). That they continued the conversation 

 for some time, discussing the law at length, and that 

 they finally separated without having reached a defi- 

 nite conclusion, and with the understanding that the 

 General would see the President again on Monday. 



In reply, General Grant admitted that the conver- 

 sations had occurred, and said that at the first con- 

 versation he had given it as his opinion to the Presi- 

 dent that, in the event of non-concurrence by the Sen- 

 ate in the action of the President in respect to the Sec- 

 retary of War, the question would have to be decided 

 by the court ; that Mr. Stanton would have to appeal 

 to the court to reinstate him in office ; that the ins 

 would remain in till they could be displaced, and the 

 outs put in by legal proceeding j and that he then 

 thought so, and had agreed that if he should change 

 his mind he would notify the President in time to 

 enable him to make another appointment, but that 

 at the time of the first conversation he had not 

 looked very closely into the law ; that it had recently 

 been discussed by the newspapers, and that this had 

 induced him to examine it more carefully, and that 

 he had come to the conclusion that, if the Senate 

 should refuse to concur in the suspension, Mr. Stan- 

 ton would thereby be reinstated, and that he (Grant] 

 could not continue thereafter to act as Secretary or 



