PUBLIC DOCUMENTS. 



655 



War ad interim without subjecting himself to fine and 

 imprisonment ; and that he came over on Saturday 

 to inform the President of this. change in his views, 

 and did so inform him ; that the President replied 

 that he had not suspended Mr. Stanton under the 

 Tenure-of-Office Bill, out under the Constitution, and 

 had appointed him (Grant) by virtue of the author- 

 ity derived from the Constitution, etc. ; that they 

 continued to discuss the matter some time, and finally 

 he left without any conclusion having been reached, 

 expecting to see the President again on Monday. 

 He then proceeded to explain why he had not called 

 on the President on Monday, saying that he had had 

 a long interview with General Sherman ; that various 

 little matters had occupied his time till it was late, 

 and that he did not think the Senate would act so 

 soon, and asked, " Did not General Sherman call on 

 you on Monday ? " 



I do not know what passed between the President 

 and General Grant on Saturday, except as I learned 

 it from the conversation between them at the Cabinet 

 meeting on Tuesday, and the foregoing is substan- 

 tially what then occurred. The precise words used 

 on the occasion are not, of course, given exactly in 

 the order in which they were spoken, but the ideas 

 expressed and the facts stated are faithfully pre- 

 served and presented. 



I have the honor to be, sir, with great respect, 

 your obedient servant, 



O. H. BEOWNING. 



The PRESIDENT. 



DEPARTMENT OF STATE, | 

 WASHINGTON, February 6, 1868. ) 



SIR : The meeting to which you refer in your letter 

 was a regular Cabinet meeting. While the members 

 were assembling, and before the President had en- 

 tered the Council Chamber 2 General Grant, on coming 

 in, said to me that he was in attendance there, not as 

 a member of the Cabinet, but upon invitation, and I 

 replied by the inquiry whether there was a change 

 in the War Department. After the President had 

 taken his seat, business went on in the usual way of 

 hearing matters submitted by the several Secretaries. 

 When the time came for the Secretary of War, Gen- 

 eral Grant said that he was now there, not as Secre- 

 tary of War, but upon the President's invitation; 

 that he had retired from the War Department. A 

 slight difference then appeared about the supposed 

 invitation, General Grant saying, that the officer 

 who had borne his letter to the President that 

 morning, announcing his retirement from the War 

 Department, had told him that the President de- 

 sired to see him at the Cabinet, to which the Presi- 

 dent answered, that when General Grant's commu- 

 nication was delivered to him the President sim- 

 ply replied that he supposed General Grant would be 

 very soon at the Cabinet meeting. I regarded the 

 conversation thus begun as an incidental one. It 

 went on quite informally, and consisted of a state- 

 ment, on your part, of your views dn regard to the 

 understanding of the tenure upon which General 

 Grant had assented to hold the War Department 

 ad interim, and of his replies by way of answer and 

 explanation. It was respectful and courteous on 

 both sides. Being in this conversational form, its 

 details could only have been preserved by verbatim 

 report. So far as I know, no such report was made 

 at the time. I can give only the general efi'ect of the 

 conversation. 



Certainly you stated that, although you had re- 

 ported the reasons for Mr. Stanton' s suspension to 

 the Senate, you nevertheless held that he would not 

 be entitled to resume the office of Secretary of War, 

 even if the Senate should disapprove of his suspen- 

 sion, and that you had proposed to have the question 

 tested by judicial process, to be applied to the person 

 who should be the incumbent of the Department, 

 under your designation of Secretary of War ad in- 

 terim, m the place of Mr. Stanton. You contended 



that this was well understood between yourself and 

 General Grant ; that when ho entered the War De- 

 partment as Secretary ad interim ho expressed his 

 concurrence in a belief that the question of Mr. Stan- 

 ton's restoration would bo a question for the courts ; 

 that in a subsequent conversation with General Grant 

 you had adverted to the understanding thus had, and 

 that General Grant expressed his concurrence in it ; 

 that at some conversation which had been previously 

 held General Grant said he still adhered to the same 

 construction of the law ? but said if he should change 

 his opinion he would give you seasonable notice of it, 

 so that you should, in any case, be placed in the same 

 position in regard to the War Department that you 

 were while General Grant held it ad interim. I did 

 not understand General Grant as denying, nor as ex- 

 plicitly admitting, these statements in the form and 

 full extent to which you made them. His' admission 

 of them was rather indirect and circumstantial, 

 though I did not understand it to be an evasive 

 one. He said that, reasoning from what occurred 

 in the case of the police in Maryland, which he re- 

 garded as a parallel one, he was of opinion, and so 

 assured you, that it would be his right and duty, un- 

 der your instructions, to hold the War Office after the 

 Senate should disapprove of Mr. Stanton's suspen- 

 sion until the question should be decided upon by 

 the courts ; that he remained until very recently of 

 that opinion, and that on the Saturday before the 

 Cabinet meeting a conversation was held between 

 yourself and him in which the subject was generally 

 discussed. 



General Grant's statement was, that in that con- 

 versation he had stated to you the legal difficulties 

 which might arise, involving fine and imprisonment 

 under the Civil Tenure Bill, and that he did not care 

 to subject himself to those penalties ; that you replied 

 to this remark, that you regarded the Civil Tenure 

 Bill as unconstitutional, and did not think its penal- 

 ties were to be feared, or that you would voluntarily 

 assume them ; and you insisted that General Grant 

 should either retain the office until relieved by your- 

 self according to what you claimed was the original 

 understanding between yourself and him, or, by sea- 

 sonable notice of change of purpose on his part, put 

 you in the same situation which you would be if he 

 adhered. You claimed that General Grant finally 

 said in that Saturday's conversation that you under- 

 stood his views, and his proceedings thereafter would 

 be consistent with what had been so understood. 

 General Grant did not controvert nor can I say that 

 he admitted this last statement. Certainly General 

 Grant did not at any time in the Cabinet meeting 

 insist that he had in the Saturday's conversation 

 either distinctly or finally advised you of his determi- 

 nation to retire from the charge of the War Depart- 

 ment otherwise than under your own subsequent 

 direction. He acquiesced in your statement that the 

 Saturday's conversation ended with an expectation 

 that there would be a subsequent conference on the 

 subject, which he, as well as yourself, supposed could 

 seasonably take place on Monday. 



You then alluded to the fact that General Grant 

 did not 'call upon you on Monday, as you had ex- 

 pected from that conversation. General Grant ad- 

 mitted that it was his expectation or purpose to call 

 upon you on Monday. General Grant assigned rea- 

 sons for the omission. He said he was in conference 

 with General Sherman ; that there were many little 

 matters to be attended to. He had conversed upon 

 the matter of the incumbency of the War Department 

 with General Sherman, and he expected that General 

 Sherman would call upon you on Monday. My own 

 mind suggested a further explanation, but I do not 

 remember whether it was mentioned or not namely, 

 that it was not supposed by General Grant on Mon- 

 day that the Senate would decide the question so 

 promptly as to anticipate further explanation be- 

 tween yourself and him if delayed beyond that day. 

 General Grant made another explanation that he 



