108 



nue now being considerably less than 

 to pay the expenses of the Government, while 

 oar gold revenue is considerably in excess of 

 the gold demands upon the Treasury. That is 

 the answer. It could not im reuse the public 

 debt. But, to raeetacriticignu.l Unit kind, we 

 propose, or did propose, that we should ex- 

 preslv provide that it should not increase the 

 public d. hi. although that is not necessary. I 

 do not think it is necessary, and 1 do not 

 think it would be of any avail ; but the bill 

 can be very easily amended in that way it' it 

 is desired. I will simply say that the money 

 that is received for these bonds will only be 

 used for the purpose of extinguishing a portion 

 of the public debt, or for the purpose of pay- 

 ing and meeting the ordinary expenses of the 

 rnraent. To that extent it would relieve 

 so ranch of the revenues of the Government, 

 which might be applied to the payment of the 

 public debt." 



Mr. Tlmrman : "Yes; but we cannot for- 

 get that within the hist tew months wo have 

 seen the Secretary of the Treasury reissue 

 four or five millions of money when nobody 

 pretended that the revenues of the Govern- 

 ment were insufficient to pay its expciiM-s. 

 He thought there was warrant for it, and 

 reissued them because there was a tight 

 money market, becange tin-re was a corner 

 in money in New York ; and I cannot tell 

 npon what pretext he might not reissue these 

 notes; and thus the public debt might be in- 

 creased. 



" Nor do I know to an absolute certainty 

 that the revenue of the Government will be 

 sufficient to meet the expenses, especially if 

 we are to go on in the way some Senators 

 favor, of appropriating money for every con- 

 ceivable purpose for which money can be 

 used. If we are to give away all the proceeds 

 of the sales of the public lands with one stroke 

 of the pen; if we are to go into an enlarged 

 system of subsidizing ute.-mixhips or other 

 res*ls; if we are to provide, as was at- 

 tempted not lung ago in a certain other place, 

 to give large amount for every ton of every 

 Teasel built in the United States a money 

 subsidy if we arc to go on in that way, I 

 am not at all certain that the revenue of 

 the country will be sufficient to meet its ex- 

 pense*. 



" Hut, Mr. President. I suppose the effect 

 of this really would be that the Secretary of 

 the Treasury, if he found himself unable to 

 pay specie, would see fit to convert these 

 greenback* Into bonds, and thnt In-fore any 

 great while the whole $856,000,000 would be 

 converted into interest-bearing l.i.n.N. Why 

 should we do that? It is said that the 

 eminent ii bound In honor to do it. It is 

 Mid this U a debt of the (".ovennnent, a tor. , d 

 loan, and thnt the Government ought to bo 

 willinir to pay intercut on its debt. And that 

 Is *i<l when a bill is before us to enable pri- 

 vate Individuals to Issue their promises to pay, 



-CJRESS, UNITED STATES. 



and pay no interest on them, liut pet int 

 iroin everybody that borrows them or uses 

 them. The paper of a national bank is as 

 much a forced loan as is a greenback. Von 

 compel the people to take that and use it for 

 money, and the bank pays no interest upon 

 it. It is of no use to say that there may he 

 ultimately a payment in specie of that note. 

 That does not alter the case. The circum- 

 stances of the country are such that business 

 is not done upon a specie basis entirely. The 

 great bulk of circulation is paper, and has 

 been for a great many years ; and the conse- 

 quence of making the currency of the country 

 consist of the notes of private institution-, 

 called banks, is simply to enable them to loan 

 their own credit, upon which they pay no 

 interest whatever; and it is as much a forced 

 loan as is any loan that ever could be issued 

 by the Government. 



"Now, which of the two is the best cur- 

 rency the bank - notes or the Government 

 greenbacks? In the estimation of the people, 

 the greenbacks are the best; in the estima- 

 tion of the law, the greenbacks are the hu-t, 

 because it is provided that the bank-note may 

 be redeemed by a greenback. M'hy, then, 

 should yon compel the retiring of the pnui- 

 backs to make room for just an equal amount 

 of national bank currency? The people do 

 not complain of the greenback currency at 

 all. The people do not say that the green- 

 backs are less valuable thnn bank-notes; on 

 the contrary, they prefer them. Why, then, 

 should you retire all the greenbacks to make 

 room for jnst an equivalent amount of the 

 notes of private individuals, upon which they 

 draw interest, although they nre their dilit-.? 

 It does not look to me to be very good finan- 

 ciering. It does not strike me to be so. 



" I know this goes very deep. It goes to 

 the question whether or not a bank-note cir- 

 culation is an advisable thing. I know very 

 well that a bank-paper circulation is a means 

 by which the annual products of the country 

 are distributed in a most unequal manner. I 

 know that it is a monopoly and a favoritism 

 which enables one class of men to draw inter- 

 est upon what they owe, while all other men 

 have to pay interest on what they owe; and 

 I never, therefore, have been very much in 

 favor of such a currency. But when we have 

 a currency which by the law itself is made 

 not only the equivalent, but better thnn tho 

 bank-note currency, with which the pi-oj.h- 

 are better sati-tu-d. 1 do not very well see why 

 we should retire that currency and substitute 

 for it an interest-bearing bond of the United 



" I cannot see at present any thing of sub- 

 stance in this bill except two things: one to 

 enable the holders of the greenbacks to con- 

 vert them into interest-bearing bonds, and 

 moke the Government pay interest on that 

 di-!'t, when the people are perfectly well con- 

 tent with tho greenbacks as a currency, and 



