176 



CONGRESS, UNITED STATES. 



menu, bat at the Mine time to provide for an 

 organic method by which at any convenient 

 moment wo may suspend specie payments 



Now, I would ask the Senator from Ohio, 

 as toon as he arrives at that point where the 

 specie in the Treasury is exhausted, when ho 

 redeems legal tenders with bonds, thus sus- 

 pending specie payments again, whether t In- 

 gold and silver that has been put in circula- 

 tion by the original resumption of specie pay- 

 ments, now again suspended, will not at once 

 hide itself again and be hoarded by specula- 

 tors? In other words, whether the second 

 provision of this bill will not defeat the first, 

 and whether it will not lead to more danger- 

 ous and greater fluctuations in values than wo 

 have had hitherto; whether it will not facili- 

 tate corners, and in fact increase the embar- 

 rassment under which we so far have been 

 laboring, instead of removing or diminishing 

 them' T 



Mr. Sherman: "Mr. President, the question 

 of the Senator from Missouri undoubtedly 

 touches the difficulty of this whole problem. 

 Shall we undertake peremptorily to establish 

 specie payments ? Is it possible for us to do so ? 

 If it were possible, I would say amen. My 

 trieiid will agree with me that it is impossible 

 in the present condition of our money affairs, 

 with over $700,000,000 of currency afloat, to 

 establish pen mptorily specie payments; that 

 is to say, that the Government of the United 

 States will, under all circumstances, redeem 

 its notes in specie. We must, then, devise some 

 mode by which, in a time of stringency, specie 

 payments can be suspended. I think my friend 

 will go that far. Now, what mode should we 

 adopt ? There have been three different modes 

 suL'irested and practised by civilized nations. 

 The first mode, and perhaps the most natural 

 mode, is that, in order to maintain specie pay- 

 ments, we should sell our bonds at what- \ < r 

 they might be worth in gold and use that gold 

 to maintain specie payments. That is, if our 

 notes are flowing in upon us so fast that we 

 cannot pay them in coin, we should sell our 

 bonds in the market for whatever they are 

 worth, and maintain specie payments at all 

 hazards. 



" That is a common idea of people who do 

 nvestigate the mutter very closely; and 

 if we were disposed to sacrifice the public 

 securities, probably that would be the natural 

 solution of the problem ; but would it be 

 right 1 Would it bo just? Why. sir, the 

 authority to sell a ten per cent, bond of tin- 

 United States in time of panic would not 

 maintain specie payments. I have myself wit- 

 netted the time when bonds of the United 

 Bute* bearing ten per cent, interest wire 

 sold by the Government of the United S: 

 I bare witnessed the time when to maintain 

 pecie payments the bonds of th> 



were sold for fifty cents on the dollar. 

 It is not wise for ns to provide for the sole of 



the securities of the United States on such 

 I in order to get coin to maintain s|..-. i.- 

 payments. I ask my friend if he thinks it 

 would bo wise to provide such a ren 



Now, to answer the question of the bonor- 

 able Senator from Missouri, 1 will state that 

 for a time, during the temporary |<:,i.ir in the 

 case I have supposed, gold would in-ci -ssarily 

 be retired, held by the persons who had it 

 and would only be sold as an article of mer- 

 chandise ; but that would pass away :i- the 

 clouds pass away before the sun. A tempo- 

 rary panic would pass away, a temporary 

 stringency in the money market would pass 

 away, and in ten days after this great strin- 

 gency in the money market there might be an 

 easy time, an easy money market, just as to- 

 day the money market is easy both here and 

 in all the countries of the world, while last 

 October it was very stringent, not only here 

 but in all commercial centres. These times 

 of stringency arc like temporary passing clouds, 

 and we must provide for them." 



Mr. Fenton: "My position is this: that if the, 

 bill of the honorable Senator from Ohio will 

 bring about the resumption of specie payments 

 not only without reducing the volume of cur- 

 rency, but with some addition to it. tin n lit us 

 have it at once. Do not postpone the day. On 

 the other hand, if the volume of the currency 

 is now too great to resume and maintain specie 

 payments, then let it be gradually reduced un- 

 til we reach the specie condition. I think it 

 should be diminished, hut if it is not which 

 seems more probable I suppose there may be 

 some improvement, if we avoid further re- 

 dundancy, as the population and business in- 

 terests of the country rise up and require the 

 present volume, or rather until tn"e country in 

 its future prosperity and progress can main- 

 tain it upon a specie basis. But 1 do not see 

 that the bill helps ns; Iain sure it does not 

 take one step toward specie payments. 1 ' 



The V ice-President: "The question is on 

 the amendment of the Senator from New York 

 (Mr. Fenton) to the amendment of the Senator 

 from Connecticut (Mr. Buckingham)." 



The amendment to the amendment was re- 

 jected. 



The Presiding Officer (Mr. Anthony in the 

 chair) : " The question is on the amendment 

 proposed by the Senator from Connecticut 

 (Mr. Buckingham)." 



The question being taken by yeas nnd nays, 

 resulted yeas 9, nays 84. 



So the amendment was not agreed to. 



Mr. Saulsbury, of Delaware, said : " The aim 

 of. this bill, or rather the amendment of the 

 Finance Committee, is. to bring about a re- 

 sumption of specie payments. Thnt object, if 

 it can be attained, and attained in a proper 

 way, is certainly a very desirable object; tor, 

 so long as we have an irredeemable paper cur- 

 n iH-y. then- must be fluctuations in value; 

 there must at times be depression in business 

 arising from those fluctuations. Until we re- 



