188 



CONGRESS, UNITED STATES. 



Mr. Morton: "Will the Senator allow me 

 to read him a Motion from the act of 18071 



In all CUM of innnrreetion or obstruction to the 

 law., either of the United States or of any individual 

 State or Territory, where it U lawful for tli. 

 dcni of the United States to call forth the militia for 

 the purpoae of suppressing such insurrection or of 

 onuiBf the lawi to be duly executed, it ihall be law- 

 ful for him to employ for the ume purpose aueh part 

 of the laad or naval foroea of the United State* as 

 shall bo judged neoeaaary, having ftrat observed all 

 the prerequisites of the law in that respect. 



' That cover* it exactly." 



Mr. Tliurraaa: "I cannot answer two or 

 three question* at the same time. My friend 

 from Wisconsin says no statute is necessary, 

 and then my friend from Indiana wants me to 

 pay attention to a statute. I can only do one 

 thing at a time, and that very imperfectly, iii 

 this debate which has sprung up without any 

 expectation on my part or any preparation for 

 it, which perhaps would be the very best reason 

 why I should have said nothing at all upon it. 

 Bat I do deny the proposition of my friend 

 from Wisconsin, that, under tho constitutional 

 obligation of the President to see that the 

 laws are duly executed, he can, at his mere 

 will and volition, employ tho Army and Navy 

 of the United States as a part of the poise 

 eomitatiu by simply putting them within the 

 reach of the marshal of tho United States, a 

 civil officer. I say that such a construction as 

 that might be utterly destructive of liberty, 

 and utterly destructive of the true execution 

 of the laws and of the Constitution, and our 

 forefathers never intended any such thing as 

 that. If so, why were all these statutes passed f 

 There are a great many tilings that the Presi- 

 dent by the Constitution might seem to have 

 authority to do that yet he cannot do without 

 an act of Congress. He is made the Oom- 

 mander-in-Obief of the Army and tho Navy. 

 Have we no power over the Army and the 

 Nary I" 



Mr. Oarpeuter: "Certainly, and over him 

 in that capacity." 



Mr. Thnnnan : " Yes, sir, be is commander 

 of the Army and Navy, but he cannot send 

 the Army against our will to any place where 

 we say he shall not send it. He can send it 

 where we say he shall send it, and the sa'n,- 

 thing of the Navy. His power to see that tho 

 laws are executed i a power to see that they 

 are executed pursuant to the law .MIL! with 

 the means which tho law gives him. It is a 

 power to execute them as the law says he 

 hall execute them, not a power to execute 

 them without any provision of law to enable 

 him to execute them." 



Mr. Carpenter: "If that were the theory 

 of the thing, the proper way to have conferred 

 that powr in the Constitution wan. to have 

 authorized Congress to authorize the President 

 to execute the laws. It is not a power of 

 Ooagrett. The power is conferred by the 

 Constitution on the President to take care 

 that the laws be faithfully executed. I do not 



mean to maintain that the President can go 

 out on a general mission of construing statutes 

 and calling out the military ; but I say alter a 

 case in court has passed into judgment it 

 ceases to be a case beweeu citizens ; the United 

 States have called their citizen > to the bur, 

 have determined what shall be done liclweeu 

 them ; for instance, that the defendant shall 

 render up possession of forty acres of laud; 

 the process of the court issues to compel that 

 surrender; it meets with n M-taiirc; the pro- 

 cess is in the name of the United States ; all 

 process goes in the name of the President of 

 the United States, and when the question 

 comes, shall that decree of the court bo obeyed 

 or not, the issue is not boween A B and C D. 

 but it is between the United States and all 

 comers. And that is precisely tho case where 

 the Constitution says and it needs no act of 

 Congress to make it any stronger, and no act 

 of Congress can take the power away that 

 the President shall take caro that the laws be 

 faithfully executed." 



Mr. Thiinnaii : " He shall take care that tho 

 laws are executed in tho manner provided by 

 law. But now let us test this matter a little 

 more. Suppose we were to abolish the Army 

 to-, lay (we may disband it, so that there will 

 not bo a man in it from the general to a pri- 

 vate), and here rests upon the President this 

 obligation to see that the laws are executed, 

 can he thereupon raise on army of his own 

 more motion ? Can he involve this Govern- 

 ment in $1,000,000 of expense by raising an 

 army and marching it from tho State of New 

 York to tho State of Louisiana to execute 

 Judge Durell's decree, without any act of Con- 

 gress authorizing any such thing? No, sir, he 

 cannot do it, because if Congress will not give 

 him the means to do it he is powerless to 

 do it 



"Now, sir, I will not prolong this debato 

 upon that subject. If yon look into these acts, 

 the act last road by the Senator from Indiana 

 is an act in relation to insurrection." 



Mr. Morton : " Oh, no ; it expressly extends 

 to enforcing decrees of courts." 



Mr. Thurman : " If tho Senator will send it 

 to mo, I will thank him. I do not think any 

 general act can bo found that authorizes the 

 Army or tho Navy of the United States to be 

 summoned in this manner. There are certain 

 cases, I think, in some of the enforcement 

 acts, where it is so provided. If so, why was 

 the general law passed in 1801 and I am 

 now coming to it which clothed the marshals 

 with tho same power that the sheriffs had ? Is 

 it to !>o supposed that right in tho midst of the 

 war it was intended to clothe the marshals 

 with power to summon nn army in the field, 

 or on army on its march, and divert it from 

 its military operations to execute some civil 

 process to put John Doe into the possession 

 of a tract of land that he had recovered from 

 Richard Roe? Was that tho meaning of Con- 

 grew? No, sir, nothing of that kind. It 



