210 



CONGRESS, UNITED STATES. 



" Before I take iny seat I will move to insert 

 at the proper place ' if in his judgment not in- 

 compatible with the public interests.' " 



The Vice-President : "The question is on 

 the amendment of the Senator from New 

 York, which the Secretary will read before 

 the Senator from Ohio proceeds." 



The Chief Clerk : " After the word ' Senate ' 

 it is proposed to insert ' if in his judgment not 

 incompatible with the public interests.' " 



Mr. Thurman : " Mr. President, let us come 

 to the substance of this matter. The Senator 

 says that it is a rule or a usage to submit it to 

 the discretion of the President of the United 

 States whether he will answer resolutions of 

 inquiry like this. Sir, if there is any such 

 usage, I do not know it. I think I am tolera- 

 bly familiar not as familiar as the Senator, 

 for he has been here longer than I have been 

 with the usages of the Senate ; but I was fa- 

 miliar with the Senate long before the Senator 

 was familiar with it, and with the usage in 

 Congress long before he had a seat in Con- 

 gress ; and if there is any such usage, I must 

 say I do not know it. In respect to our for- 

 eign affairs, it has always been the usage ; but 

 that in respect to matters of domestic concern, 

 in a time of profound peace not in a time of 

 war, but in a time of peace our resolutions 

 of inquiry are to be subjected to the discretion 

 of the President; and that he is to answer 

 them or not, according to his judgment, or his 

 will, or his prejudices, or his feelings, or his 

 interests, I am not ready to admit. I do not, 

 therefore, concede that there is any such usage 

 as the Senator speaks of applicable to a resolu- 

 tion of this kind; for what is this resolution? 

 Does it ask the President what is to be done 

 with the army in the future ? No, sir ; it re- 

 lates simply to what has taken place, and asks 

 the President to give us a piece of information 

 as to what has taken place. What objection 

 can there be to that ? It is that we may not 

 act upon mere newspaper reports ; it is that 

 we may not take mere telegraphic dispatches 

 as the evidence of what has taken place, but 

 that we may have official information of what 

 has taken place. It relates entirely to what 

 has occurred ; not to movements of the army 

 contemplated in the future, but to what has 

 occurred the simple, naked facts. 



" Why, Mr. President, it does seem to me as 

 if all sensibility on the subject of liberty was 

 being lost in this land. Is Louisiana the only 

 State in which troubles occur in organizing a 

 Legislature? My colleague will remember 

 when the Legislature of the State of Ohio was 

 for more than two weeks without organization 

 under circumstances very nearly similar to 

 those in Louisiana, except that in that case 

 there was no fraudulent returning board in 

 Ohio ; for, thank God, we never got to that 

 depth of perdition in that State, and there was 

 no military power ; but there were two bodies 

 in the House of Representatives with two 

 Speakers and business going on before both in 



the very same chamber. For two weeks the 

 Legislature of Ohio was unable to organize by 

 reason of that state of affairs. What would 

 have been said if the President of the United 

 States, if Martin Yan Buren, had sent the Army 

 of the United States into that chamber to expel 

 some of the members who claimed seats and to 

 seat the rest ? I can tell you, sir, that that 

 force would never have left Columbus if it had 

 been sent there for any such purpose. 



" But that is not the only instance. Who 

 has forgotten the scenes that took place in the 

 Legislature of Pennsylvania? Who has for- 

 gotten the trouble about organizing the Legis- 

 lature of Pennsylvania on a famous occasion ? 

 There what would have been said, what would 

 the venerable Senator before me from Penn- 

 sylvania (Mr. Cameron) have said, if at that 

 time the President of the United States had 

 sent the Army of the United States to Harris- 

 burg to put up one party and put the other 

 down ? 



" Well, sir, there is the same law for Ohio 

 and Pennsylvania that there is for Louisiana. 

 I know very well the excuse under which these 

 things are done. I know very well that there 

 is an idea afloat that, although Louisiana is one 

 of the States of the Union, as much entitled to 

 the rights of a State as Ohio or Pennsylvania 

 or New York, yet she may be trampled into 

 the dust ; that a Governor may be foisted 

 upon her by usurpation, by the unconstitu- 

 tional edict of a Federal judge supported by 

 bayonets, and that that first fatal step is to be 

 maintained, although liberty and the Constitu- 

 tion and law may all perish in sustaining 

 it ; and that what would not be tolerated in 

 Massachusetts, or your own State, or Ohio, or 

 Pennsylvania, for a single moment, may be pa- 

 triotism, forsooth, and the force of law in the 

 State of Louisiana 1 



" I want to see the facts. I want these facts 

 to come here. I want to know who it is that 

 has called for the use of the Army of the 

 United States to organize a State Legislature." 



Mr. Morton, of Indiana, said: "Mr. Presi- 

 dent, it seems to me that the fervor displayed 

 by the Senator from Ohio is rather uncalled 

 for in view of the character of his resolution. 

 He argues this resolution as if it was in the 

 nature of a mandate, as if it was peremptory, 

 as if the Senate of the United States had the 

 power to issue an order to the President of 

 the United States to make a certain report 

 and that he' was compelled to obey that order. 



" But, sir, I come to another, which I think 

 is a more important matter, and goes beyond 

 the mere phraseology. If we are to have in- 

 formation upon this subject, let us have the 

 whole story, and not require the President to 

 answer upon a particular point. Let us have 

 the whole story ; let the whole truth go to the 

 nation, and I think we can bring that out by put- 

 ting the following addendum to the resolution : 



And whether he has any information in regard to 

 the existence of armed organizations in the State of 



