MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



45 



17 September, 1919.] 



MR. H. ARMOUR and MR. G. Or. MERCER. 



{Continued. 



10.211. That would be about 2s. on the quarter for 

 wheat? Yes, that would be about it. 



10.212. 60s., therefore, is the figure you say would 

 cover profits also? Yes, it would require to be not 

 less than that. 



10.213. In the event of the market price being, let 

 us say, 70s. a quarter, your view is that the fanner 

 should be allowed to sell at 70s. and retain the profit ? 

 He would be getting then, according to your figures, 

 12s. a quarter profit? That would satisfy the farmer 

 all right. 



10.214. Do you think it would satisfy the general 

 taxpayer? That I cannot say, but as a farmer I 

 should quite like to have 70s. with a guarantee of 

 60s. ; I admit that. 



10.215. Your considered view, and the view of the 

 Chamber of Agriculture, is that the farmer ought to 

 be guaranteed a price which will cover his costs, and 

 give him interest on his capital and payment for his 

 management and a profit in addition? Quite. 



10.216. He is to be guaranteed that by the State? 

 Yes. 



10.217. But in addition the farmer, if the markets 

 re favourable, may take any higher price? Quite. 



10.218. You suggest that method for wheat, barley 

 and oats? Yes. 



10.219. Has the Chamber considered the question 

 of applying it to all farm crops? The Chamber con- 

 sidered that it ought to apply to at least potatoes, 

 because the potato crop is a very expensive crop to 

 handle. It is also an essential crop, and although 

 I do not say that we should have a guarantee of a 

 certain price for potatoes, I think we ought to have 

 a guarantee of a minimum price, which would show 

 no profit to the farmer, but would enable him to 

 carry on, and that we should be guaranteed a market 

 for our potatoes that there should be machinery set 

 up to utilise the potato crop. We know that wo can 

 grow more potatoes than can go into domestic con- 

 sumption, and if farmers are to be left with a great 

 quantity of potatoes on their hands you may depend 

 upon it that the green crop will fall, and as the green 

 crop falls so will the cereal crop ; so that you require 

 to deal with the potato crop, too. 



10.220. What about milk? I would rather not 

 answer questions with rogard to milk, because I 

 really do not know anything about milk at all. 



10.221. Has the Chamber considered the question 

 of a guaranteed price for milk? (Mr. Mercer) : Tho 

 Chamber has a Committee sitting on that at the 

 present moment, but there has been no time to go 

 into the matter yet. 



10.222. Has the Chamber considered the question 

 of guaranteeing a price to the beef producer? 

 (Mr. Armour) : No, they have not considered that. 



10.223. I notice in your statement here you state 

 that the Soottkh Chamber has approved of the 

 principle of the Corn Production Act so far as the 

 guaranteed prices of cereals are concerned? Yes. 



10.224. What exactly is the meaning of that; 

 there is a limitation to their approval? We approve 

 it thus far, that we approve that the agricultural 

 worker ought to have a sufficient wage for his work 

 on the farm. We think that the farm labourer 

 ought to be paid as good a wage as the indus- 

 trial worker. We approve of that principle, 

 and we also approve of the principle that if you are 

 to attain these ends then you have got to have 

 something like the Corn Production Act. We 

 approve of it on those lines. 



10.225. Why is the approval limited to guaran- 

 teed prices for cereals? What part of the Produc- 

 tion Act do you not approve of? I do not say there 

 is any part that we do not approve of, but we 

 mainly approve of that to attain the end that we 

 want. 



10,228. That end being? Increased wages to our 

 workmen. 



10.227. Is it really the aim of the Scottish Cham- 

 ber to ^et a guaranteed price in the interests of the 

 farm workers in Scotland, so far as wages are con- 

 cerned ? Ortainly. 



10.228. That is their sole purpose? That in one of 

 our purposes. 



10.229. What guarantee has the worker received 

 under the Corn Production Act what is the mini- 

 mum rate in your district? What advantage have 

 the farmers received under the Corn Production 

 Act? They have received none. 



10.230. What is the minimum rate in your dis- 

 trict at the present time? The minimum rate of 

 wages for ploughmen is 44s. a week. 



10.231. Under the Corn Production Act? I beg 

 your pardon 36s., I think. 



10.232. May I put it to you that the Corn Pro- 

 duction Act has had so little effect in guaranteeing 

 wages in Scotland that you, as a prominent farmer, 

 active in all that concerns farming in your district, 

 do not even know what the minimum rate is? I 

 know that the minimum rate fixed by the Wages 

 Board is 36s. a week. 



10.233. What is the actual rate you are paying 

 to your ploughman? 4-ts. a week. 



10.234. With any additions? Yes, there are cer- 

 tain perquisites, free house and potatoes. 



10.235. What do you value his perquisites at? 1 

 have no doubt I could get 10 for his house just 

 now, but suppose you value it at 6, and his per- 

 quisites I have valued according to my estimate 

 his potatoes and his harvest allowances. 



10.236. That is 2 10s. and 1? Yes. 



10.237. That is, roughly, about 4e. a week? Yes. 



10.238. So that the workman himself, without the 

 aid of the Corn Production Act at all, is able to 

 secure a wage of 2 8s. a week, whereas the Corn 

 Production Act secures him 36s. a week? Yes. 



10.239. Do you seriously suggest that the approval 

 of the Corn Production Act by the Scottish Chamber 

 of Agriculture is in order that they may be able to 

 pay their men a proper rate of wages? Yes, but 

 Oimtm we. can get it out of the land in the shape of 

 crops we cannot pay our men any wages; we are 

 not confined to the minimum price now we are 

 getting far above it, otherwise we could not pay 

 these wages. 



10.240. In other words you are dependent for your 

 ability to pay wages not upon the Corn Production 

 Act bnt upon the market conditions of to-day? Yes, 

 that is so. 



10.241. What does the workman depend upon for 

 his wages, is it not also the market conditions? Of 

 rourso he has the general market for his labour, and 

 if he can get more in another industry he naturally 

 wants to shift where he will get more money. 



10.242. He is trusting to the market rate? Yes. 



10.243. Has there been any demand from the work- 

 men in Scotland for a guaranteed minimum such as 

 is provided under the Corn Production Act? I can- 

 not say that there has no, I do not think so. 



10.244. So that the Chamber is much more con- 

 rorned about guaranteeing the wages of the workmen 

 than the workmen are themselves? Farmers know 

 that they will not get labour unless they give the 

 market rate, and they are unable to do that unles* 

 they get a price for their corn? 



(Mr. Mercfr) The Chamber is very anxious to be 

 sure that there is the ability to pay the wage to tho 

 workman. 



10.245. You suggest that there should be. some statu- 

 tory committee appointed for the purpose of fixing 

 prices for the following four years, and I think you 

 said in reply to Mr. Edwards that the three interests 

 of farm-workers, farmers and landlords are to be repre- 

 sented on the Committee from time to time? (Mr. 

 Armour) : Yes. 



10.246. Does the Chamber consider that the con 

 sumer ought to be represented on the Committee? 

 Surely. 



10,247., How would you suggest the Committee 

 should be formed : in what proportion would tho 

 various interests be represented ? I do not know that 

 [ am competent to give an opinion upon that point. 



10.248. I understand that this has been adopted by 

 your Chamber, and if your Chamber is a representa- 

 tive body of agriculturists in Scotland anxious to 

 advise as to how these things should bo done they 

 have surely gone into some kind of scheme? I should 

 think that they should have equal representation. 



10.249. Each section ? Yes. 



