

ROTAL COMMISSION ON AGRICri.Tl'KK. 



17 StpUmbtr, 1919.] 



MR. 1). ARMODR and MR. O. O. MKRCER. 



[Continued. 



10,350. Surely tin- landlords and farmers would 

 hare the same amount of representation as the con- 

 sumers and workers?- Yes. 



10351. In reply to Mr. Kdwards I think you stated 

 that you ought' to hare guarantees not : 

 the farmers' price but a guarantee which would secure 

 a rent to the landlord and a wage to the work.r.- 



V. 



30,252. What method do you propose should be 

 taken for ensuring that the landlord is to get a 

 sufficient r. in :- I would consider the obligations that 

 a landlord has to meet in the shape of the upkeep 

 of his property and the upkeep of his buildings; he 

 has to equip the Innd which is n very serious matt' r. 



10.353. And that a definite amount should bo allo- 

 cated in the cost of production to the rentP Yes, I 

 should say so. 



10.354. Not based upon the price? It would require 

 to be based upon the price. 



10.355. You would not fix Ihe rent first? You 

 might do it in that way. 



10.356. It would not bear any relation to tho 

 amount of the rent, that is to say.' if the guaranteed 

 price rose, the rent would not \\- rise, in 

 proportion? Under a lease the rent would" not 



but in the. case of n yearly lease it might rise and 

 fall that is your point. 



10,257. You suggest the rip; ointment of a statu- 

 tory committee for fixing prices, and you say that 

 the price fixed should contain a guarantee to "the 

 farmer. That I take it, from what you have stated 

 already, is to rover his costs of production, with 

 the addition of a profit to the farmer. I think you 

 have already said that? Yes. 



10,358. In arriving at the cost of production to 

 the farmer you have to allocate a certain amount 

 for rent? Yes. 



10,259. Which would be quite independent of tho 

 other costs of production?- Quite. 



10,360. The method would be to find out the in- 

 creased outlay on the part of the landlord, and he 

 would get his rent raised accorc! v es. 



10,201. How would you propose to fix tho remunera- 

 tion of tho worker so that he would be guaranteed 

 something? There is machinery for that already 

 under the Corn Production Act. 



10.362. As I have already {minted out to you, when 

 farmers are getting prices much above "even tln> 

 figure you are asking for here as a guarantee, that 

 machinery fixes a rate of wage 12s. a week below 

 what your workmen can get in the market. D< 

 think there is any guarantee there for the workers? 

 Yes, in this respect, that the farmer is getting a 

 bigger price than is held out to him under the Corn 

 Production Act, and therefore ho shares his increased 



with his labourers. 



10.363. You are asking for a guarantee which shall 

 cover the cost of production and give a profit to 

 yon? Yes. 



10.264. You are prepared to leave the workmen 

 to the machinery of the Corn Production Act which 

 fixes the minimum rate of wages 12s. below the present 

 market rate:- The Corn Production Act fixes a 

 minimum price for the produce which is greatly below 

 the market pri<-e of the produce, and therefore the 



hman is getting the benefit of the higfifer price 

 thnt we as farmers are getting. 



10.265. You fixed your wages in the month of May, 

 ^ es. 



Hi'.?'*;. Wh:it guarantee at. that time had you with 



I to price ? -We had only tho Corn Production 



A. i by way of a guarantee. Of course, we know that 



unlem we paid these figures wo would not get the, 



men. 



10.'.' her words they were not sharing in 



any guarantee thnt you h'ad' Warn.- there wns no 

 guarantee in operation at all You were simply will- 

 ing to pay the market rate independent of' what 



got. for your crops?- Y,-s tint it 

 have operated as soon as the next year came round. 



10,268. Were you present w hen the rate was ' 

 in your district that year? 



in 2. I think y w wore present. Mr. MercerP 

 (Mr. Mtretr). Y. 



10,270. Is it not the case that the farmers stated 

 then that they exported to get a very much lower 

 price for their crops tin?, V r:ir :- There were 

 ments made backwards and forwards which [ bine 

 no copy of to-day, that it was possible that there 

 might be a fall. 



10,371. They argued against an increase on those 

 grounds, but in spite of the fact that they did not 

 know what the price was going to be they raised 

 the wages. It wa a market rate whirh the men 

 secured entirely independently ot sharing in tli< 

 farmers' profit? (Mr. Armour): It is the market 

 price we are getting for the grain to-day. 



10.272. You have no fn th'-r guarantee to offer to 

 the workers than the Corn Production Act and the 

 Wages Board under the Corn I'm <u, -timi AetP Tho 

 principle of the Corn Production Art. \\V ,j 

 think that tho guaranteed prices under the ].' 

 Corn Production Act will bo of any use at all. 



10.273. Are you prepared to take a guaranteed 

 price based on the minimum rate of wages under the 

 Corn Production ActP Yes, I do not see any 

 tion to that. 



10.274. What would be the effect if you based your 

 cost on the 36s. instead of 48s.? The farmer would 

 require to take the risk. 



10.275. I think you stated in reply to Mr. Edwards 

 that control would be quite impracticable to the 

 operations of tho farm ? Severe control. 



10.276. Would you favour any form of control that 

 the farmer would he under in return for his guar- 

 antee? I would much rather not have control at all, 

 but if the farmer is to be guaranteed a price for liis 

 grain then I cannot see but what the farmer must 

 submit to some control, but I would make it as 

 limited as possible. 



10.277. What would the nature of the control be? 

 The nature of the control would lie that he would be 

 required to f&rm his land according to the best 

 methods, and that he would have to conduct his 

 operations so that there could be no fault found 

 with him. 



10.278. But he would be free to grow any particular 

 crop he liked so long as he was farming properly ? 

 Certainly. 



10.279. You would put no limitation upon him in 

 that respect? No, not in producing crops. 



10.280. It would not necessarily mean the produc- 

 tion of cereals; there would be no compulsion upon 

 the farmer to grow cereals? If you do not grow 

 cereals I do not know what you arc going to grou . 



10.281. You make your profit on the cereals, do 

 you? To a certain extent. You will not grow them 

 if you do not make a profit on them. 



10.282. You want a guaranteed price, but at the 

 same time you want the farmer to be left free to 

 grow whatever crop he pleases so long as li 

 farming his land properly? Yes. 



10.283. You have stated that it does not pay the 

 Scottish farmer to produce beef and mutton? Yes. 



10.284. Are you applying that statement generally 

 to Scotland or only to the corn growing districts, 

 such as tho Lothians? I am applying it to general 

 farming on the four course rotation, feeding your 

 turnip crop off and making manure for the sue 



ing crops. I do not apply it to grass land at all. 



10.285. Do you mean to say, taking Scotland 

 generally, it does not pay farmers to produce beef 

 and mutton? Speaking generally, it has not paid 

 arable farmers working on the four shift course to 

 produce beef or mutlnn. 



10.286. Will you explain to the Commission how 

 it was that the counties which were principally 

 engaged in producing beef were counties which were 

 able to keep tlie land continually under the ploii: b 

 and did not let it go down to grass? Was it worked 

 on the four cro rotation? 



10.287. Take Abcrdeenshiro, for example? Is it 

 the case that Aberdeenshirc is worked on a four shift 

 rotation? 



10.288. No, I do not think it is? It is the four 

 shift rotation I am speaking of. 



