MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



47 



17 September, 1919.] 



MR. H. ARMOUR and MR. G. G. MERCEK. 



[Continued. 



10.289. You are applying this statement to the 

 corn growing lands? I am. 



10.290. It does not apply generally to Scotland P 

 No, not to grass land. 



10.291. I do not say grass land. You want this 

 statement limited purely to the corn growing dis- 

 tricts? I do. 



10.292. Mr. Cautley: Would you tell me, Mr. 

 Armour, how many members you have in the Scottish 

 Chamber of Agriculture? I think, with affiliated 

 societies and altogether, it is a good bit over 10,000. 

 (.Vr. Mercer): I think it is nearer 14,000 with the 

 affiliated societies. 



10.293. Without the affiliated societies, how many 

 is it? Direct members, somewhere between 3,000 and 

 4,000, I think. I could not just guarantee those 

 figures. 



10.294. That is near enough for my purpose. Are 

 you appointed by them to come and give evidence on 

 behalf of the whole of Scotland? (.Vr. Armour): We 

 are, so far as the Scottish Chamber is representative. 

 ID all probability you will have the Farmers' Union 

 here as well; but I do not know. 



10.295. The Farmers' Union is a different body? 

 Yes. 



10.296. Is that the same as the National Farmers' 

 Union of England? I think so. I think it is on the 

 same lines. 



10.297. And we shall see somebody from them? I 

 do not know ; but there is a body such as that in 

 Scotland. 



10.298. If the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture 

 deputed you to come and speak for the whole of Scot- 

 land, why have they selected your farms? They did 

 not select my farms, but they asked several farmers 

 to give a statement that they could submit to this 

 Commission, and I was one of the farmers that sub- 

 mitted a statement, which is here. There ere other 

 farmers who did the same thing. 



10.299. I notice your statement is not a balance 

 sheet? No. 



10.300. Simply an account of different expenses? 

 Quite. 



10.301. Where is the farm? It is 10 miles from 

 Edinburgh to the west. 



10.302. Which county? Linlithgow 



10.303. Is it good land? It is fair average knd. 

 My farm is rather a heavy farm. It is not n good 

 potato farm. It is too heavy for potatoes. 



10.304. Can you plough it with two horses? Yen. 



10.305. What is the rotation of it? Four shifts. 

 If you begin with hay 



10.306. Is that clover? That is clover. We cut it 

 for hay. Then after that we usually follow with 

 oats after the seeds. Then we follow' with a green 

 crop. 



10.307. That is potatoes, is it? Potatoes or 

 turnips. If we have potatoes, we usually follow with 

 wheat; if it is turnips, we usually follow with barley, 

 and we sow the seeds with the wheat or the barley. 

 That is the rotation. 



10.308. So that the bulk of the expense in plough- 

 ing is done on the green crops? That is the most 

 expensive crop in regard to labour. 



10.309. That is where you clean the land? That is 

 where we clean the land. 



10.310. How often do you plough that? It 

 depends. If you get it early ploughed and it lies all 

 winter possibly, you find it an advantage to give it a 

 second plough ; but it does not invariably follow that 

 we plough twice for our green crop. 



10.311. Do I understand that in your cleaning of 

 the crop, to plough twice in Scotland is unusual ? 

 No, I would not say it is unusual. I would say that, 

 taking the average for Scotland, it is not common. 



10.312. Not common to plough twice evenP No, 

 not common 



10. .'jl.'!. 1 takr- it yon have no real heavy land in 

 >nd at all? We have in Ayrshire. There 

 is some in Stirlingshire, where we have very heavy 

 land, and in Fifeshire. 



10.314. I know where they plough fallows five or six, 

 and even more times in England to clean them; but 

 that you do not do in Scotland? No. 



10.315. Never? No. 



10.316. You can keep the land clean without?- We 

 never plough more than twice in any case. 



10.317. So that makes the cost of production of 

 cereals cheaper than in parts of England? Yes, I 

 would say so. Where you have so often to plough 

 the land, then it is bound to add to the cost. 



10.318. I suppose you only plough for the other 

 crops once? Only once. 



10.319. If that is so, kow comes it that you make 

 the cost of growing wheat more than the cost of 

 growing barley? It is entirely on account of the 

 manure and the seed the unexhausted manure. 



10.320. From what you have told me, the wheat crop 

 followed in the same rotation as the barley crop and 

 it only depended whether it was potatoes, or roots, 

 whether you grew barley or you grew wheat? I said 

 after the potato crop wheat usually follows. 



10.321. Because you get the potatoes off earlier, I 

 suppose? You get the potatoes off early, and the 

 wheat is getting the first of the farmyard manure 

 that has been put into the soil. 



10.322. For the potatoes? After the potatoes. 

 Therefore there is a bigger exhaustion of fertility 

 takes place with the wheat than with the other crops. 



10.323. The barley is grown on the seeds ? After 

 potatoes. 



10.324. No, not after potatoes, after turnips? Yes. 



10.325. Do not you manure your turnips too? We 

 do not manure so heavily. Sometimes there are a 

 great many turnips grown in the Lothians without 

 any farmyard manure at all. The farmyard manure 

 is mainly kept for potatoes. 



10.326. Do you call your farm in the Lothians? 

 Yes, the West Lothian. 



10.327. I thought the rents in the Lothians were 

 very much higher than the rent you pay? It varies 

 very much. (3/r. Mercer) : There is one point, if 1 

 may 'put it. The wheat has a very much longer period 

 of growth than the barley, and that helps to exhaust 

 a little more of the manure. I think we credit some- 

 thing to that. 



10.328. I want to test this. You bring out, as a 

 result of your figures, the cost of the oat crop at very 

 much less than the wheat or barley crop, do you not!' 

 (Mr. Armour) : Yes,, the cost of the wheat crop is 

 very much more because you will see, on exhaustion, 

 there is 2 10s. allowed for that, while there is only 

 1 5s. allowed for the barley, and 1 5s. for the oats. 



10.329. As a matter of fact you grow a great many 

 more oats in Scotland than you do wheat? Yes, 

 we do. 



10.330. And you are more anxious to get a big 

 guarantee for oats than you are for wheat? We are. 



10.331. Are not your figures rather designed with 

 that object? No, not at all. I do not think you 

 could say that. They are certainly not designed with 

 that object. 



10.332. South of the Tweed, the desire is rather the 

 other way to get a suitable figure guaranteed for the 

 wheat than for the oats? Of course you know you 

 may debit the wheat crop with a considerable amount 

 in the shape of cleaning of land. 



10.333. And that you have not done? That I have 

 not done. 



10.334. But that ought to be done to get at the 

 actual cost of growing the wheat, ought it not? That 

 ought to be taken into consideration, to a certain ex- 

 tent. (Mr. Mercer) : But the cleaning of the land 

 applies to the whole rotation of crops. (Mr. Armour) : 

 Yes, the wheat gets the first of it. 



10.335. I agree that is quite true, hut the cleaning 

 of the land, so far as the wheat and oats are concerned, 

 as the wheat and oats come in the same rotation and 

 it only depends whether you have grown potatoes and 

 you have grown turnips, whether you grow wheat or 

 oats is the same for them, whether it is wheat or oats? 



