MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



11 



16 September, 1919.] 



MR. B. J. THOMPSON, O.B.E. 



[Continued. 



They were got out by our Agricultural Machinery 

 Bra'n-h, and supplied as being fairly representative. 



9145. Yes, you tell us they are representative, but 

 I want to test and see how far they are representa- 

 tive. I gather you cannot tell me anything about 

 them? I cannot tell you anything more than that 

 they are taken from trade catalogues. 



9145A. Take Table I., your fertilisers. You have 

 already been asked about the basic slag, and it has 

 been pointed out, and you have agreed, as I under- 

 stand that the prices fixed for basic slag are whole- 

 sale prices ex mill. They are not the prices a farmer 

 has to pay ; he cannot buy at these prices at all ? 

 Yes. The prices whk'h have been fixed by the Board 

 for basic slag are prices to the farmer. 



9146. That is not the question I am asking; I am 

 asking about what you put down in your list? 

 have put down in my list 3 12s. for 1920, and 

 3 10s. for 1919. That figure is the price for 30 

 per cent, basic slag delivered to the farmer, less the 

 allowance which is included in the price for the 

 cost of delivery. 



9147. You have already said that. What I want 

 to ask you is, does the same principle apply to the 

 sulphate of ammonia, to the superphosphate, and to 

 the nitrate of soda prices? No ; they are nob uniform. 

 They are uniform as regards each article taken 

 separately as a comparison with the earlier years. 



9148. The Chairman calls my attention to the noti- 

 on basic slag at the bottom of Table I., where you 

 say: " The prices of both superphosphate and basic 

 slag are f.o.r. at works, except the figures for 1918- 

 1919 in the case of superphosphate, and for 1919-1920 

 in the case of basic slag, which are ' ex works ' 

 prices." You see, unless we have the prices on one 

 basis it is very difficult to apply your table? You 

 will understand that in 1912-13 there were no such 

 things as delivered prices, and consequently it is very 

 difficult to give a figure which is comparable all thu 

 way down the table. 



9149. As I cannot reduce it to one principle, I will 

 aak you a specific question. What was the price that 

 a, farmer had to pay in 1919, according to you, for 

 sulphate of ammonia ; because I could not buy it 

 at 16 1.5s.? In the spring of 1919, from the 1st 

 March to the 1st May, 19r9, the price of sulphate 

 of ammonia delivered to farmers was 16 15s. That 

 is for two-ton lots. 



91.50. And that applied all over England? .That 

 applied all over Great Britain. 



!ir,l. What was it in the autumn of 1919, that is 

 now:- The price fixed at the present time for delivery 

 in October, 1919, is 20 10s. 



91.52. That is to the farmer? That is to the farmer, 

 in bags, net cash. 



9!5:i. Why did they put down here just the price 

 in the spring and not the price in the autumn? 

 We are very much limited in these prices by the 

 available records. 



9154. But these are controlled prices? Yes; but 

 our endeavour has been to make these prices fairly 

 comparable with 19)2 and 1913. 



9155. The difficulty I have is, that I do not see 

 what asistancc to us the price in the spring of 

 1919 is when it has risen to 20 in the autumn of 

 1919? ^Sulphate of ammonia on the whole is a spring 

 fertiliser. 



9156. Let us take superphosphate. What was the 

 price to the farmer in 1919? Is it 6 4s. 6d.? Yes, 

 6 14s. 6d. delivered, and 6 4s. 6d. knocking 10s. 

 off for delivery. 



9157. That is in the spring of 1919? That is in the 

 month of March, 1919. 



9158. And the price at the present moment? It is 

 7 5s. ; but there is no controlled price in the case of 

 superphosphate, so that that is a manufacturer's 

 statement. 



9159. I think you have told us that basic slag is 84s. 

 now? Yes; 84s. delivered, that particular grade. 



9160. And nitrate of soda now delivered? The 

 price of nitrate of soda which is being quoted by the 

 Ministry of Munitions for appreciable quantities, gay 

 of 10 to 50 tons, is 20 2s. 6d. 



9161. Farmers do not buy it like that, you see? 

 Then I should say from 21 to 22. 



9162. That is the price that an ordinary farmer can 

 buy it at in a two- ton lot? Yes. 



9163. I cannot buy at these prices that you put 

 down here ? These prices, as I have mentioned before, 

 are the regulated prices. I am sorry to hear that you 

 cannot buy at those prices. 



9164. I will not say all of them. The price of sul- 

 phate of ammonia is all right; at any rate, it is 21 

 or 22 now? That is my opinion of what the price 

 of nitrate ought tx> be ; and, as I say, very large sales 

 are being made, and I hope that that will reduce the 

 price to about that figure. 



9165. Only one question as to the future of sulphate 

 of ammonia. You anticipate it going down. Is that 

 due to the fact that the other fertilisers, you think, 

 will go down, and therefore sulphate of ammonia will 

 have to go down ; or do you anticipate any cheapening 

 in the cost of making sulphate of ammonia? No. 

 This suggestion that I have made, that the price of 

 sulphate of ammonia will fall after the coming season, 

 is based entirely on the prospect of obtaining supplies 

 of nitrate of soda. 



9166. Y'ou anticipate that nitrate of soda will be ob- 

 tainable at so much less, that it will compete with sul- 

 phate of ammonia, and sulphate of ammonia prices 

 will come down ? Yes. I expect the freight of nitrate 

 of soda to fall in the future ; and that ought to bring 

 prices down, I should say, to between .!."> :iii<l L'17. 



9167. But if you are wrong in that, would not you 

 agree with me that the cost of sulphate of ammonia is 

 likely to go up rather than go down, I mean the cost 

 of manufacturing it? Yes/ In these prices we have 

 allowed for a considerable increase in the cost 

 of manufacture ; and the makers are reluctant, 

 strange though it may sound, to increase the price 

 further for fear of driving customers away. 



9168. In sulphate of ammonia? Yes. 



9169. Just look at Table III., Feeding Stuffs. Am I 

 right in saying that the whole of these feeding stuffs 

 set out in your table are at the present moment con- 

 trolled ? It is under the column "Controlled price, 

 September, 1919."? No; there aire one or two 

 marked with a cross which are not controlled. 



9170. I had not observed that. When was this con- 

 trol put on? I will ask you the general question 

 again. Are these the controlled prices to the farmer, 

 or are they controlled prices ex mill? In other words, 

 has carriage to be added to them all ? Yes, carriage 

 has to be added to them all. They are " ex mill " 

 prices. 



9171. For instance, take maize. You put maize at 

 a controlled price of 65s. You do not suggest that any 

 farmer can buy maize at 65s. to-day, do you? That is 

 the authorised price at which maize is sold c.i.f. by 

 tho Wheat Commission. 



9172. By the Wheat Commission in bulk? Through 

 their distributing merchants. 



9173. In bulk to tho distributing merchants. Is it 

 the imported price? Is it the price ex ship to the 

 merchants? No; this is the price at which the dis- 

 tibuting merchant ought to sell this material. 



9174. Ought to sell it ; but is he bound to sell it at 

 this price? The actual licensed distributing merchant 

 is bound to sell at this price, plus handling and 

 delivery charges. 



9175. As I understand, there is no controlled price 

 except by means of licensing the dealers. Is that not 

 SIP? Do you mind explaining what the control of 

 cereals is so far as the Wheat Commission is con- 

 cerned? Tho whole of tho maize that comes to this 

 country is imported by the Wheat Commission, and 

 issued by them to licensed distributing dealers. 



9176. Am I right in saying that nobody but a 

 licensed distributing dealer can get any maize? Yes, 

 in the first instance. 



9177. Will you tell me the terms of the licence so 

 far as price is concerned at which he has to sell? 

 No, I do not think I can. 



