17 



, ;I9.] 



IlllYAI. ' "\1MI-MnN 'N Milili I I'M III . 



Mi: H AiiMorit and Hit. <! ' MM:. Kit. 



price*'- I think o. If you were producing beef, you 

 u..tiltl he entitled t.. put that charge against it. 



10.5'Jti I understood you to -ay. in an-wcr t" M 

 ('utley. that <m your farm tin- threshing machine 

 a* your ownP Yea. 



10.527. IB not that true of most farms in your dis- 

 trict? No, it is not. I think it will only IM- true 

 as regard* 60 pel cent, of them. 



10.528. But as many as 50 per cent, t Yes, n* 

 many as nt. 



10.529. That, of course, alters the position, and 

 make* it an entirely different one to that prevailing 

 in tl-is Kiniitry. where the travelling thresher does. 

 nay, 80 or 90 per cent. ? We have not quite as much 

 unleM you go amongst smaller farms. Then, of 

 course, it is all done by the travelling thresher. 



10.530. You said, in answer to Mr. Cautley. th.it 

 you felt quite certain that at the end of the war, 

 whatever that may mean, under present circum- 

 stance* prices were going to fall. Could you give us 

 any reason why you think prices are going to fall? 

 The reason I would give is, that the facilities now 

 for transporting foodstuffs and farm produce from 

 foreign ports are enormous, and as soon as they get 

 into proper working order they are bound to reduce 

 prices of farm produce. 



10.531. You do not anticipate any big demand from 

 other Kuropean countries to take part of the supplies 

 that normally comes here? Those will soon rectify 

 themselves too, and there is one thing a farmer has to 

 face. He will be losing his market pretty much for 

 hay. The internal combustion engine is now taking 

 the place of horses in the towns, and he would not 

 have the same market for his oats and his hay. We 

 must face that, too. 



10.532. He would not have the same market for 

 his hay; but do you regard the loss of the market for 

 hay aa a real disadvantage? Yes, I do. So far as 

 Scotland is comerned with regard to hay and oats, 

 the loss of the market for oats is going to be a serious 

 matter. 



10.533. You stated just now that your Chamber had 

 only very recently begun to consider this question of 

 guaranteed prices: is that so? Of course we con- 

 sidered the Corn Production Act, and we were in 

 favour of it; but just now we have had very little 

 time to go into the matter possibly as fully :is we 

 ought to have done. 



10.534. Do you remember a Committee that was 

 s-t up early in the war period, to consider supplies 

 and production of cereal crops in Scotland similar to 

 iln- Milner Committee in England? No, I do not 

 recollect it so far as Scotland is concerned. I do not 

 think we had it I am not familiar with it. 



10.5.V. An- nut yon familiar with the fact that at 

 that time. I think it was in li)lf>. there was no 

 demand on the part of Scottish farmers, or ev 

 ingly little demand, for a guaranteed price? So far 

 as I know, there were no costs of production, so far 

 as cereals were concerned produced at all. There was 

 in the case of potatoes. 



I" "..IT,. Should I be correct in saying that the 



demand of the Scottish farmers for guaranteed prices 



TV re.-ent growth indeed ?- It is n,,t of recent 



h: because we have always M-en that unl-ss 



wtnething of that kind wa.s taken in hand. agricnl- 



tur.. :w going l<i IM- Mwamped altogether. 



-till. I put it t<i you that, so far as there 

 i a roal demand, it is ;i .(.maud that has dc\ . ; 

 within tho last vear, or I. t me sv 18 month*" 

 about tl 



10.538. What m the real reason for itP The real 

 rwuion is that th costs of producing fnrm produce 

 have M > enormously ri n and farmer* ha\ 



M of what took place in the pn*t. and they di. 



'ivthing to prevent the same rircumsi 

 happening again in the future; that is what v 

 anxious about. 



Hut are n,,t Scotch farmer* rather proud 

 Ot their indn : |,,, t vm| ( , annot W()rk 



losing concern 



l(l,. r il'i. \n. you cannot work a losing concern, and 

 nobody can : but 1 think .Scotch farmers would he 

 the last to say they would not try to %ork a concern 

 that other pei'i .1 losing one. Is not tli 



I know that in Scotland in the latter end of th" 

 wventiiw, there were a great many Scotch farmers 

 came to bankruptcy; and much later than that. We 

 have had :i very hard time of it. 



10.541. Yes; and they came to England as well as 

 to bankruptcy? Possibly they knew they were going 

 to something better; the conditions in Scotland were 

 much harder. 



10.542. But surely it him been one ot the can 

 pride in the Scotch farmer that he was able to main- 

 tain his arable, crop and run his business under 

 fairly good conditions, and also to pay hm workmen 

 In-tier wages than the English farmers were paying 

 theirs in the period prior to the war? I do not 

 think there is either an English farmer or a Scotch 

 farmer who could produce wheat ai -'is a quarter: 

 and that was the price in 1894. 



10.543. So that, according to your statements, the 

 real reason for the demand for a guarantee comes to 

 this: that wages have risen, that you are not sure 

 that prices are going to be maintained at their 

 present level, and you have a little uncertainty as 

 regards the future? Yes, we have. 



10.544. You are not quite prepared to face it on 

 your own responsibility? We are not. 



10.545. Would you be prepared to face it on your 

 own responsibility if the public did not make any 

 particular demands ns to what you should produce? 



No. We are not prepared to take it on those 

 conditions at all. 



10.546. Not under aay conditions whatever? No, 

 not under conditions whatever. \\V cannot possibly 

 expect our ploughmen to work for a less wage than 

 other people are getting round about; and if the 

 prices fall there is no other alternative but we must 

 reduce our ploughmen's wage or go without. 



10.547. From your point of view it is absolutely 

 . .srntial that you have a guarantee? It is absolutely 

 essential that we should him- a -ullicienl price tor 

 our produce that will enable ns to iiuike ends n 



10.548. And the only way that you can do that is by 

 a guarantee, practically speaking?- We think ^o. 



10.549. If you are assured by an authority on con- 

 stitutional law and practice that there is absolutely 

 nothing binding in any Act of Parliament which 

 might give you a guarantee for five years in the 

 case of a change of Government, what, would be 

 your attitude then? Our attitude would be that if 

 they did not fulfil the obligation of the previous 

 Government the whole thing would go to \\ 

 That would be the idea. 



10.550. And would not the position then be rather 

 worse than if you had taken conditions as yon found 

 them, and organised your business so as to comply 

 with them, and still yield you a living profit? No, 

 we cannot do it. Unless we had sufficient guarantee, 

 we cannot produce grain. We can allow the land to 

 go to grass and reduce our labour and other expenses, 

 but that is not altogether in the interests of the 

 country. Cereals and green crops are of far more 

 value to the country than grass; and if they want us 

 to cultivate the soil they must make provision for it 



10.551. Turning to the question of the sliding 

 which you mentioned in answer to Mr Cautley. would 

 you include in that idea of a sliding scale, which I 

 presume you meant to apply to wages, an absolute 

 minimum of wages, beyond which they could never 

 fall, no matter what prices were? 1 have no 

 lions to that. 



10.552. What would you suggest such a minimum 

 should be? It would he very difficult to do that: 

 because the cost of living would require to be tal.cn 

 into consideration. 



M1.55M. You are fully aware that in other cases in 

 industry in which there has been a sliding scale, there 

 has always been a basic minimum? Yes; but you 

 10 fix your minimum wage pretty much as to the 

 cost of living. I do not see how vou can get out oi 

 that. 



