MINUTES ov EVIDENCE. 



55 



17 September, 1919.] 



MK. H. ARMOUR and MR. G. G. MEKCER. 



[Continued. 



10.642. And therefore this guarantee, if it were 

 carried out, would be for the benefit of the general 

 public, and not for the benefit of the farmer? 1 agree. 



10.643. Do you think that along with the guarantee, 

 it would be fair to stipulate there should be a certain 

 area of land kept under crop? Certainly. 



10.644. I mean a man could not reduce his arable 

 area and still claim the benefits of the guarantee: 1 

 No ; I would not allow that. 



10.645. You say that you have mostly 14 years 

 leases, with breaks in them. Are those breaks on both 

 sides, or only on the farmers' side? They are on both 

 sides as a general rule; but most of the leases now 

 are 14 years without a break on good estates. 



10.646. The system of breaking is dying out, is it? 

 Yes, on good "states. 



10.647. With regard to the new Education Act ; 1 

 expect you agree that education is gcod for the 

 people, and you want to get them as well educated as 

 you can? Yes. 



10.648. But do you see difficulties in the way? It 

 will mean that boys and girls cannot go to work on 

 the land until they get older than they are at present? 



VPS. that is what \ve think. 



10.649. Have you any fear that as they get older 

 they will get more disinclined to take to farm life? 

 That is the case. We find the best age to get a boy on 

 the farm is about 13. If you allow him to get to 15, 

 then he has no inclination to go on the land. He is 

 attracted to the land by the animals on it at the age 

 of 13; but when he gets to play games of football, and 

 that kind of thing, he has no notion of the land, and 

 he will not come to it. 



10.650. And it might lead to an increased shortage 

 of labour? It will lead to an increased shortage of 

 labour, and throw us more on to men and women. 



10.651. Can you suggest any remedy for that? I am 

 sorry I cannot suggest a remedy for it, but I have no 

 doubt that is how it will operate. 



10.652. On the question of wages, I think your 

 statutory minimum Has stated to be 36s? Yes. 



10.653. But the perquisites are in addition to that; 

 they are not included in that? Yes they are included 

 in it. 



10.654. But you are, actually paying '4s., with per- 

 <|iiis : tcs in addition? Yes, that is so. 



10.fi.>). 1 thought in Scotland perquisites were 

 (Diluted in addition, under the Wages Order? v 

 they are included. 



lO.fi-Vi. With regard to your horses' keep in Table 

 No. 1, I see you are charging just the same rate th s 

 year as you did last. Is that correct, do vou think? 

 f did not see that I could charge any other rate : 1 - 

 cause while hay just now is at abnormal prices, I d'd 

 not feel justified in putting it down. 



10.657. You calculate it the same as last year? Yes. 



IO.i;5X. And it is the same? Yes. 



10.659. You have not taken the market rise? No. I 

 have not. 



10.660. And the reaper, and general smiths' work 

 in the same way? Exactly. 



10.661. Have not the blacksmiths ra'sed their rate? 

 -Yes, they have The rates have l:een up for. a con- 



s'derable time with the blacksmiths. 



10.662. They are up a lot to what they were: but 

 have not you hnH a further recent rise? No, not up 

 to now that I know of. 



HUirfi.'i. We had one two months ago, and I thought 

 probably you lino had the same. To make up for the 

 shortage of hours, 1 ecause you are losing 6 hours a 

 week at least, do you think you will have to make 

 nood that shortage by employing more hands, or can 

 it be done by an increased use of machinery? So far 

 a. we can sre just now. we will require t-> employ 

 mure hands to do the work. 



10,664. You think it can be substituted by an in- 



i\ use (.( machinery?-- We have either to emp'ov 



more hands, or pay overtime; and of course in paying 



overtime you are possibly getting the usn of your 



* for a longer time. We find the men do not 



like to work overtime, especially on a Saturday. 



1M.M5. 1 a:'i . What about tractors? Have you 

 tlied them? T have employed them, but I have rot 

 nv own. 



10,666. Do you think they will be able to take a 



(Mil 



really useful place? I think so, I think there is 

 some prospect of that. 



10.667. And reduce the amount of horse labour? 

 I think there might be some reduction ; but not to the 

 same extent as you would think, because you require 

 the horses in harvest time, and you must have horses 

 about the plae? to do the work in the seasons. If 

 you have not, then you lose far more than you gain 

 by not having them. 



10.668. There is something in that; but I think 

 you can work it in with a fewer number of horses? 

 I think I could. 



10.669. I think you said you had 14 horses now 

 six pairs and two odd ones? Yes. I might do with- 

 out a pair. 



10.670. That would save a pair of horses, because 

 a tractor is not eating when it is not working? 

 Yes ; but the wear and tear of a tractor is very 

 considerable. (Mr. Mrrcer) : And you can often 

 work with horses when you could not put Ji tractor 

 on the land. We have had that experience in our 

 district. 



10.671. You divide your costing equa'ly for all 

 crops? (Mr. Armour): I do. 



10.672. Do you think it is possible to get at the 

 costings of individual crops? I do not think so. I 

 do not think you would get f irmers to do it. They 

 have not the time to do it, for one thing. 



10.673. Do you think it would be worth anything 

 \'t it were done? I do not think it would he worth 

 anything, even if it were done. 



10.674. Really the true way is, to take the average 

 of your rotation ? Yes. I will give you an example 

 (.' what I mean. We were stopped harvest opera- 

 tions on Friday. There was nothing done by anybody 

 on the farm. Then there was nothing done on Satur- 

 day, and on Monday we could only set up stooks. A 

 farmer could get nothing out of them because it was 

 setting up stooks, and it was wet. There were 

 three days lost. What are you going to put that to? 

 These are the losses farmers have to make up. If we 

 could work our business as a factory, which opens 

 its gates at 6 o'clock and shuts them at 6, then we 

 could estimate pretty nearly what it would take to 

 produce any article. But you see we have to contend 

 with the weather. 



10.675. The weather is always our master. What 

 do you calculate is the extra time taken for stable 

 work by a man? I think it will amount to nearly 

 three-quartei s of an hour to an hour a day. 



10.676. You think that will be it? Yes. 



10.677. And the time when the horses are actually 

 in the stable? Yes. 



10.678. Of course, when they are running out it 

 would be nothing, so the average of the year would 

 bo less than that? There is less with the running 

 out. 



10.679. Dr. DontiJas : There are one or two ques- 

 tions on the evidence you have already given that I 

 should like to get cleared up. Do Scotch farmers on 

 the whole desire to continue to arrange 14-year lenses? 

 I think they do. 



10.680. They feel their lease to be a desirable pro- 

 tection? They do. 



10.681. And there is no tendency on their part to {,0 

 to an annual lease or any short arrangement of that 

 kind? No, we do not want an annual lease. 



10.682. On the question of some control as a condi- 

 tion of guarantee, F think you agree that if the State 

 is to give a guarantee to secure a supply of cereal 

 crops, it must take some steps to see it gets a return 

 for that? Yes, I agree. 



10,6S3. But do you agree that a condition that there 

 shall be good farming will satisfactorily secure that? 

 That is so. 



10.684. There would not be good farming in ordinary 

 totations unless there was a certain amount of cereal 

 cultivation? No; I do not think you would get the 

 best out of the land unless you had a considerable 

 amount of the land under cereals. 



10.685. So that that would be an element in good 

 farming? Yes; and if they were to give a guarantee 



D 4 



