MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



57 



17 



; 1919.] 



MK. 11. AKMOUK and MR. G. G. MEKCER. 



[Continued. 



10.728. You have uot considered 'any scheme re- 

 garding the responsible Committee that was spoken 

 of? No. 



10.729. You prepared your present evidence, I 

 think, rather in view of the immediate question of 

 the necessary prices for the year 1920? That is quite 

 so. It was just with that view. 



10.729A. It you are required at a later stage, you 

 would be prepared to consider that? Certainly, we 

 would do that at once. 



10.730. I think you said that the Chamber has 

 been considering the question of guarantees for other 

 than cereal crops. I am not going to ask you any 

 questions in detail on that subject ; but is not it the 

 case that there would be great difficulty in adminis- 

 tering guarantees in respect of other crops:" Would 

 you contemplate that being done by the method of 

 the Corn Production Act in the case of, say, milk, 

 or would it entail a system of State purchase? I 

 almost fear it would need a system of State purchase; 

 but I would not like to commit the Chamber. 



10.731. Do you think a system of State purchase 

 with the consequence of a fixed maximum price as 

 well as a fixed minimum price, would encourage them 

 to produce? It is very doubtful if that would. The 

 experience we have had of State purchase this last 

 year has not helped it at all. 



10.732. It has been somewhat mixed? Yes, that is 

 so. very mixed. 



[0,788. You do not think the production would be 

 encouraged by a system involving purchase by the 

 State of the various products? No, it is very doubt- 

 ful if it would. 



10,784. -And, therefore, it would not have the justi- 

 lication which is m-ic^ary for the guarantee system? 

 That is so. Unless it would ensure increased pro- 

 duction then the thing is not doing what is wanted. 



10,735. And you do not think it would ensure in- 

 creased production? I have very grave doubts about 

 it, speaking personally. 



10.7:*; Mi: \\'nll;<r: I want to ask you if I under- 

 stood you correctly, when you expressed the view of 

 the Chamber, that they desired to be left alone en- 

 tirely. How do you reconcile that statement with the 

 rlaim put forward on behalf of the Chamber for 

 guarantees? This claim is put forward now. The 

 time when we were wishing to be left alone entirely, 

 a. two years or so ago. The circumstances have 

 changed. 



10.737. Do I understand correctly that now you are 

 not desirous of being left alone:' Certainly, we wish 

 in lie looked after. We now have to consider the 



of production as they are to-day, and if the 

 growth nf cereals is to be maintained we do now wish 

 a guarantee. 



10.738. So that to that extent you do not desire 

 to be left alone? No, not at this stage. It was 

 earlier that we wished to be left alone. 



10.739. I believe it was Mr. Armour, in reply to 

 Mr. Kd wards, I think, who stated that if certain 

 things happened the whole of the land would go out 

 of cultivation. Might I :isk you, Mr. Armour, if you 

 really mean the whole of the land would go out of 

 cultivation? (Mr. Armour): If the land did not 

 produce a profit for the men who cultivated it, it 

 would certainly go out of cultivation. 



10.710. In your evidence-in-chief you give certain 

 figures; for instance, wheat per quarter of 604 Ibs. 

 ^ mi put at 58s., and that you state would be without 

 providing any profit? Quite so. 



10.741. I did not quite follow myself exactly what 

 you required over and above that figure named for 

 i-ofit? T think I stated 10s. an acre. 



10,743. Do Mm keep accounts? I do. 



10,743. Do you pay income tax? I do. 



I'l.TII. On wli-ii - I just pay about half <if my rent 

 in income tax and the landlord pays the other half. 



10,745. You do not pay it on profits? No. 



10,74(1. Would it lie correct to say that most farmers 

 adopt that way of ]mying income tax? Yos. T think 

 that would be correct. 



10.747. HathT than pay on profits? Yes. 



10.748. So that income tax is a had index? I think 

 lint if the Government continues to levy tax on 



double rent, I think you will find that the present 

 ucnerntion of farmers will go out of farming. 



Farmers are not clerks. Their duty is to produce, 

 and is outside looking after the crops. You will not 

 get farmers to sit down at night and write up their 

 books and make balance sheets, as a general rule. 



10.749. It is perfectly obvious, I think, that farmers 

 are not book-keepers? They are book-keepers, but 

 they are not clerks. They keep books to their own 

 satisfaction. 



10.750. Is it your view that that is the reason why 

 you choose to pay income tax on the rent instead of 

 paying it on profit: is that the actual reason? Yes, 

 that is the actual reason. 



10.751. There is no other reason? There is no other 

 reason' 



10.752. But, at any rate, repeating my question, 

 am I correct in my estimation that most farmers 

 adopt that plan? I think you are right. 



10.753. Dealing with education in the next para- 

 graph, you do not of course as a Scotsman object to 

 the best education possibly being given to the 

 farmers' sons? Certainly not. 



10.754. You give it, however, as one of the reasons. 

 I am inclined to think it may be misunderstood from 

 the way it is put here? I think it is. 



10.755. It is subject to misinterpretation ; but you 

 do not mean it in tliat way? I do not mean it 

 that way. I mean it is a mistake to keep boys at 

 school and at the continuation classes marking time. 

 If a boy can do good at the school and take in the 

 instruction then I am all with it ; but a boy who has 

 to attend school and can do no good but sit and kick 

 his feet under the desk I am all against. 



10.756. But it would be a good thing for the in- 

 dustry if we had a higher standard of education than 

 we have to-day in Scotland?- Yes, I agree. (Mr. 

 Mercer) : Is that paragraph (8) you are looking at, 

 because increased education conies in there, and I 

 thought perhaps you were not reading it quite 

 correctly. It is: "Increased education and other 

 local rates." 



10.757. It is paragraph (8) of my copy? If that is 

 the paragraph you mean we are not raising any 

 objection to education, but it is the rates. I wish 

 that to be clear. 



10.758. I wished to make the point clear? Yes, 1 

 am glad you raised the point. 



10.759. Is it really tlie view of the Chamber 

 that permanent guarantees should be given? (Mr. 

 Armour) : So long as they are necessary, I think they 

 ought to be given. I think the land ought to he put 

 under proper cultivation and a groat deal more of 

 it than we have under cultivation just now ; and if 

 the country wants that they have to make arrange- 

 ments for it. 



10.760. With your experience particularly, consider- 

 ing the part from which you come, would you hold 

 the view that we could produce sufficient cereals in 

 this country to meet this country's demands and 

 requirements? I think it would be impossible to pro- 

 duce the whole of them ; but I think we could go a 

 great length in producing our requirements in regard 

 to cereals. We will never be able to supply all the 

 cereals because we have a great many industries that 

 use cereals, such as brewing, distilling, and that kind. 

 I do not think we could do that; but so far as feeding 

 the population is concerned, I think if the land were 

 put under proper cultivation and an extended area 

 of it, we could go a long way towards supplying the 

 food that is required for the country. 



10.761. So that really in due time you think wo 

 mrght be able to? I do. 



10.762. Taking the examination generally, and the 

 questions that have been put, is there anything else 

 that you could suggest whereby we might be able to 

 improve the status of the industry? No; the only 

 way you can improve it is to give sufficient remunera- 

 tion to the labourer and the farmer on the soil. 



10.763. Take transport, for example? Yes, I agree. 

 All those things could be brought in. 



10.764. You think there is room for those improve- 

 ments, so far as that is concerned? Yes, I do. (Mr. 

 Mercer) : And research. 



10.765. Anything clw? dommunications also. (Mr. 

 Armour) : And education, too. All these things will 

 tend to production, but you must have a profit at the 

 far end. 



