60 





, 1919.] 



UoYAI. ru.MMls^lnx ,,\ Aii IMlT I.TUJK. 

 MK. II. AI:MUUK aud Mi: <; t.. MK.BCEK. 



[L'tnitillHItl. 



10.834. Do you know any ?- 1 have never seen any 

 farmer*' balance sheet*. 



10.835. l)o yon think it is possible for thie Com- 

 mission to get information in that respect? 1 think 

 \<>u could get a lot of information. 



H>. sit!. I do not mean estimated figures P No, 

 accurate figures. If you get farmer to supply you 

 with tlu wages he pays, the number of people he has 

 <>n the farm, the quantity of cereals he disposes of, 

 and the prices he get* for them and how much ho 

 spent on manures you will go a long WHY to get the 

 information you want; but if you want detailed in- 

 formation and balance sheets from farmer* , you will 

 never get it. 



10.837. But if we could get some information show- 

 ing the total expenditure and the total income in 

 connection with the farm? There is nothing to hinder 

 you getting that. 



10.838. So you keep balance sheets or accounts in 

 that way?- 1 keep my accounts so that I could give 

 you these figures. 



10.839. Would you be willing to let the Commission 

 have them? 1 would not be willing to let you have 

 my books; but if you were to ask for information 

 like that, I do not see any objection to a farmer 

 giving it to you. I would not like to be the only 

 farmer that would give you that. I think if you 

 want that information, all farmers should be put" on 

 the same footing. 



10.840. Can you tell me why the farmers hesitate 

 to give this Commission exact information of that 

 description-' I believe a good many farmers have 

 the information ; but I believe there are a groat many 

 who have not the information, and farmers should ail 

 be treated alike. If you want that information 

 must ask for it from all farmers and not from one 

 or two. 



10.841. But it is ini|M>ssible for us to ask for it 

 from all farmers. If we could get ff few cases which 

 would illustrate the general position, that would In 

 exceedingly helpful. I would like to suggest to you 

 tlnit if the farmers are going to ask the genera] 

 public to give them consideration in the 

 guaranteed prires, the general public and Parliament 

 itscli may expect .some definite information which 

 will justify that |>olicy; and unless the fanners are 

 prepared to give it. how is it |x>ssible even for this 

 Commission or Parliament, or any other body, to form 

 a i.nrect opinion of what is necd.-d? I km.-\\ 'i 

 have great difficulty; but ii yon ask from every 

 !"; liner simply information such as the expenditure 

 and the ineoine which I have no.doubt you could get. 

 then yon could grade up nil your farms. If a farm 



in the same locality, then you could go to the 

 fanner and say: "Why is it you have not the same 

 yield off your farm as your neighbour?" In that 

 wav yon could grade it. But to get informatioii from 

 one individual farmer would lead you to nothing. 

 Yon would only know what that individual farmer 

 as doing. If you want information. I would put 

 them nil in the same box; every farmer wv.nll 

 to supply it. and it would grade up the production. 



i'-'. Do you know it was suggested that if th s 



i were not held in pulilii-. tin- farmers would 



! willing to give us exact information, and up to the' 



t wi can get nothing except what after all are 

 only estimated figures, and that one side of the 

 balance sheet only!- Y.ii will have to tnke steps to 

 tmt that is the reason. 



i.'t. Is it possible for you through your Chamber 



<f Agriculture, to help this Commission by the pie- 

 ductton of actual expenditure and income: that is. 

 ni-tiiiil accounts of farming? It would be possible if nil 



\pl.inatorv note he made that to point 

 out it is not ii special farm or anything of that soil. 



i on the Commission 1 suggest who could 



gne credit for anything that was in cded in thai 



I must admit t-o yon that the Chamh. i 



would have difficulty in getting that from certain 



any farmers. 



10,844. Then what is the deduct ion one is eorn- 

 jrf-IM to make from a statement of that sort? The 



induction you an make from that is. that the farmers 

 do not keep correct account*, you might say. Thev 

 know exactly who ii indebted to them and to whom 



they are indebted; but as to keeping a correct set of 

 books and balancing them oil. they do not do it. and 

 they never have been accustomed to do it. It yon want 

 to educate them into that, it will be a \. r> ditliciih 

 job with the present g. ncration ..t I. .nun- You may 

 do it with the rising generation ; but I mav tell you 

 farming ind book-keeping or clerking, I 

 not go together. 



10,846. Is it a fair deduction to make, that il tin- 

 Commission tailed to get information of the d< 

 tion I have been speaking of from the sources where 

 that information is available and 1 understand 

 your own statement some such information is avail- 

 able the farmers are afraid to let the facts be known. 

 because it will dispose of their claim for State aid 

 in the farming industry? Is that a natural deduc- 

 tion? No, I will not put it that way. I would put 

 it that farmers really have a disinclination to give 

 ii. and they have not the exact figures to give it. 

 I do not think it is because they have anythinc to 

 hide at all. 



10.846. Mr. Kubhin/i-. I understool you to sa\ . Mi 

 Meroer, in reply to a question put to you by Mr. 

 Walker, that early in 1917 the farmers of Scotland 

 were desirous of being left alone? (Mr. Mercer) : 

 Yes, prior to that. 



10.847. But at the moment they do desire some 

 guarantee from the State. Is that because they 

 assume that the Government will bring pressure to 

 bear upon them to maintain the existing area of 

 arable land? The feeling is that if the arable land 

 is to be maintained, at least there shoukl be some 

 guarantee. 



10.848. Exactly; and they assume the Government 

 will insist on the present area of arable land being 

 maintained? Yes, if they wish that, certainly. 



10.849. And therefore they desire the guarantee? 

 Yes. 



10.850. But if, on the other hand, they were con- 

 vinced that the Government were indifferent as to 

 the area under the plough, they would bo just as 

 willing to-day to be left alone' as in 1!M7. would 

 they not? If the Government would intimate that 

 fact, then the farmers would proceed to do th, 

 they can. 



10.851. I understand farmers in Scotland are not 

 in the position of suppliants lor favour liom 

 the community. They say if the community d. 



to interfere in the conduct of their business, they 

 must bo indemnified against loss? Yes. 



10.852. If, on the other hand, the community is 

 willing to lea-re them alone, they do not aek 

 favour from the community? That is exactly what 

 we have stated in our final clauses. 



10.853. I want to be quite dear about that. Do 

 you really think that the suggestion you make as to 

 the setting up of a Committee which won! 

 prices every September, would really give that confi- 

 dence to the farmer which he desires in order to 

 encourage him to maintain his present area of 

 under the plough? If ho is uncertain every year as 

 to what is going to happen a year afterwards, nurely 

 that would not give him much confidence?- -Still, 

 if a farmer knows in tho autumn what his pros] 



are as to price for the next season, he can within 

 certain limits alter his crop. 



10.854. You think the Scotch farmer will !M> satis- 

 fied with that from year to year? It would certainly 

 give them a certain amount of confidence. 



10.855. It would bo better tha>n nothing? Yes, it 

 would be better than nothing. 



ln.si.Vi. Then Mr. Armour. 1 understood Mr. Smith 

 objects to tho ciK-t of cleaning land which has got 

 dirty during the war years being charged up to 

 future crops. What I want to put to you is, that 

 it must cither be charged to future crops or you 

 must write off the cost from your profits? (Mr. 

 Armour): Yes. 



10,857. Either the profits which are said to have 

 been made during the war are really fictitious, or 

 "ii have to chargo up tho cost of putting tin- 

 land back into tho same position as it was in before 

 tho war to future crops? Yes, that is so. 



