

mhtr. 1919.] 



IJ.'YM < MilMISSICIX (IN AdKICI I.TI HK. 

 MR. H. ARMOUR and MK. O. O. MFI: 



[ ( ''III! 



rwMonal>lr figure. Oi count?, if it were not a reaaou- 

 .iMi- liguro. tlii'ii tin- lanil would go mil nf 

 . iiltivrttion 



|(i.!'.'i<l Slinll I In- right in assuming from \.nir 

 figure* that you would consider 60s. per quarter for 

 uneat a reasonable tiguro as an a-suranei again-' 

 low? For a period of yean? 



10.951. V. \ the present moment it looks a 

 very good ligure. 



10.952. We ore rather considering a guarantied 

 price, not ns assuring the farmer a profit, but as an 

 Hwurance against Ion in any particular year. Do you 

 share my fear that if a guaranteed price were fibted 

 which was Romething more than an insurance against 

 risk, and did assure the farmer a considerable pn.lit. 

 there would bo some danger of less efficient farmers 

 losing the stimulus to improve their methods? Tli. y 

 might feel, might they not, they were safe to make n 

 living oven if they continued to employ out-of-date 

 methods?- I think to-day we have all along main- 

 tained that if there is a guarantee, the Government 

 have a perfect right to expect good farming, and that 

 would need to be insisted on. We do not want to 

 see bad farming, whatever happens. 



10.953. Do you think that your local authority's 

 inspectors are able in practice to enforce good culti- 

 vation? They have done a great deal during these 

 past four years in that very direction, and have done 

 it very successfully. It was marvellous how few had 

 to be pulled up. There were certainly cases. 



10.954. Do you think that the same efficiency in 

 action would be maintained in times of peace, or do 

 you think it was induced to some extent by the sense 

 of danger? I think it would be maintained by the 

 great majority. In times of peace there was n very 

 wholesome desire on the part of the bulk of the 

 farmers to produce the best they could, but there 

 would have to be some authority who would have 

 power to see that the effort put forward was 

 reasonable. 



10.955. Then just one point developing some ques- 

 tions that Mr. Smith asked you. In answer to Mr. 

 Smith you said, I think, that farmers bought their 

 farms because they did not like the idea uf being 

 turned out ; and you suggested that it was rather 

 their affection for their farms very often than their 

 confidence in the future prosperity of the industry 

 which leads them to buy their farms. Is that so? 

 I certainly say they did not wish to leave their farms. 

 In many cases they would not have had any other 

 thing to turn to, and farms are not very easily pro- 

 cured. and therefore they bought the farm they were 

 on. 



10.956. Your suggestion was that it was not so much 

 evidence of their belief in the future prosperity of 

 the industry ns a sign of their affection for the fa'rm? 



I have mot no farmer who wished to buy his farm ; 

 and of those who bought them. I have not met one who 

 would wish to do it, or who would voluntarily lniy it. 

 They were bought under the compulsion of sale ; tho 

 farm was to be sold. 



10.957. Do you happen to know whether tho prices 

 paid for the purchase of these farms wore high ? Did 

 the interest on the purchase-money amount to a high 

 iiH-roa-o of rent? In most cases they wore bought at 

 a figure quite relative to the rent paid; in some 



' ore a little higher. Under special condition^ 

 ini|K'tition was keener. In most of the 

 there was quite a relative proportion between the 

 amount paid and the rent. 



10.9f)S. You are aware that that has not been tho 

 xperieni.. in Kngland? Yes; I have noticed that 

 from tho paper* 



0,959. There has been a considerable increase in the 

 rent? I have boon rather surprised by that fact. 



10,900. But in any case the purchase of the farm 

 binds the man, so to speak, to pay that rent for ever? 



10.961. And you suggest that the willingness of 

 farmers ax nhown today in this way is due not so 

 t., their belief in the future prosperity of the 

 indu.trv H o personal disinclination to move out? 

 f am .,uite sure of that; because many of them 

 have told me that they had no desire to buv at all 

 but rather than quit they bought 



10,9ti'J. In any rase, I suppose I am right in think- 

 ing that the Scutch laiinei would not be led out (if 

 .iii' lion for his farm to pay more for it than he was 

 obliged to do P No ; but I have known cases where man 

 have made substantial increases just to retain their 

 old place. 



10.963. But they would buy it as cheaply as they 

 could P Certainly. 



10.964. Then I suggest to you that the high prices 

 paid for farms are due to the fact that if the existing 

 tenant did not give a high price, someone else would - 

 That is quite possible. 



10. !>."). Anil that IIH anv iloes it nut. that othe:- 

 people who have no special affection for the parti< ul.i 

 farm would be willing to pay a big price for it? Yes. 

 I have known cases within the later months w hen- men 

 who have made fortunes in other lines have bought 

 their farms. 



10.966. In other words, people who have no special 

 affection for a particular farm think the prospect of 

 farming is sufficiently good to justify their paying 

 pretty high prices? In some cases the men did not 

 really need to care whether the prospects were good 

 or bad. They had an ample fortune and bought u 

 farm. 



10.967. As a pleasure farm? They would farm it 

 doubtless well enough, but they really need not care 

 whether it shows profit or not. 



10.968. Mr. Armour, you spoke of the danger of n 

 large amount of land being turned down to grass. 

 Would you tell me, if that were done, how you consider 

 the grass would be used; because I think you said heef 

 production was unremunerative, and that the internal- 

 combustion engine was causing the farmer to lose his 

 market for hay? (Mr. Armour): And oats. I was 

 talking of the conditions and taking the most out of 

 the land which is in the four-shift course. If you 

 turn the farm into grass, then of course you can make 

 a certain profit out of it by raising cattle and by feed- 

 ing them; but you cannot work that system if yoa 

 want the utmost production of the soil. 



10.969. It would be by raising cattle that the farmer 

 would be making profit if he turned it to grass? By 

 turning it to grass he becomes a breeder of cattle, and 

 feeds the cattle he breeds in the stall. In the rase of 

 the farm I was talking about, he buys in store cattle 

 and puts them in his stalls and feeds them for tho 

 butchers; and as soon as that lot is out hi' puts in 

 another. That system of farming could not be carried 

 on, and is not carried on, at a profit. It is only out 

 of his other crops by having the manure that he gets 

 his profit. Therefore, it is only on the best farms tint 

 that system is carried on ; because if he produces dear 

 farmyard manure he must have crops to recover his 

 loss in cattle feeding. 



10.970. But on grass land you think beef production 

 is remunerative? No. 



10.971. Mr. Proiser Jones: I think you told one of 

 the Commissioners that further education for young 

 lads would mean adding to the cost of production ? 

 Yes. 



10.972. Would you mind telling us in what wayP 

 It would interrupt the operations on the farms if you 

 employ boys and let them go away to attend i 



for four nights a week. It would interfere with your 

 operations, because the boy might be at some jh and 

 you might not have another one to put in his place. 

 It is not that we object to the boys getting education 

 at all. We are talking of how it will affect agricul- 

 ture, and we say it would affect it in that way. 



10.973. I suppose there is a considerable latitude in 

 the Act which could be taken advantage of? I do 

 not know whether it is in Scotland. 



10,947. Is it not possible that these l:nN could 

 attend these classes during the rainy season, say, in 

 winter time, and it would not so much affect the 

 harvest time? But you do not always know when 

 the rainy season is coming. 



10,975. Have you an agricultural college for farmers 

 in your district? Not in our district, but we have 

 one near. 



10.970. Would it. n<it he possihle fur those young 

 lads to go there? You have just told us you lost 



