MINUTES OF EVIDEXCE. 



17 September, 1919.] 



MR. H. ARMOUR and MR. G. G. MERCER. 



[Continued. 



three days last week owing to rain. It is only one 

 in five or one in six, and sometimes one in ten that 

 you have of these young lads. Do you really suggest 

 that it would affect your cost? It would affect it 

 in this way, that you would ho deprived of the boy's 

 labour when possibly you needed it. 



10.977. I suppose you understand that it would 

 affect every other industry in the same way? 

 Exactly so. It is an element to be taken into con- 

 sideration in the cost of production. 



10.978. Then do you think it is a sound proposition 

 to single out one industry and subsidise it in this 

 way? I do; in the case of agriculture I think it is. 



10.979. Why agriculture? Because agriculture has 

 various functions to perform. We know perfectly 

 well that the boys bred in a country place are of 

 better physique than boys bred in towns, and that 

 the physique must be supplied from the country if 

 the town industries are to be carried on. If that is 

 so, then it is in the interests of the nation to see 

 that agriculture is on such a footing that it will 

 supply that want. 



10.980. You mean by that, that all the industries 

 in the country depend to a certain extent on the 

 class of men that are brought up in the country: 

 Yes, they do to a great extent. 



10.981. What industries are there in the near 

 vicinity where you farm? Coal mining and oil shale 

 mining. 



10.0H2. You agree with me, do you not, that the 

 rates of wages are considerably higher than they are 

 on farms? Yea, they am; and I think that is one 

 of the faults we have. We do not think that the 

 agricultural labourer gets enough. 



10,983. Do you think there is any hope of farm 

 labourers remaining with yon whilst wages in the 

 adjoining industries are so much better? -There are 

 certain advantages in an agricultural life that they 

 have not in a coal mine, and ninny men prefer it: 

 but we usually find that the biggest and strongest 

 of the men go into these works where they can make 

 a very niueh bigger wage; but it is very much to 

 the detriment of agriculture to have these men go 

 off tho fanii.s. 



10.084. Then until the conditions on the farms are 

 improved there is no likelihood of having anything 

 like a settled condition, BO far as labour is concerned? 

 I agree. 



IU^KO. If you turn to Table Xo. 1. you will find that 

 the rates and rent have gone up 8s. lid. I that due 

 to education or rent, or what is it? No. I put that 

 down as the probable extent to which I thought that 

 rent and taxes would go up. 



10.986. Then it is not actual? It is not actual. 



10.987. Supposing the price of cereals were to drop 

 to the minimum now guaranteed, would that mean 

 that the rate of pay to tho labourer would also have 

 to be red wed?. -Yes. it certainly would mean that. 



10.988. Does it follow the conditions in the agree- 

 ment?- Not during the present guarantee. I thought 

 you were referring to the Corn Production Act. 



10.989. Yes. The pricos prevailing to-day are coii- 

 ibly higher, are they m.tr Yes. 



10.990. Supposing those prices were to drop to the 

 level of the gnarantec under the CV>rn Production Act. 

 would that me;in that a farm labourer's wages would 

 also have to be reduced? Either that or you would 

 have to do with fewer of them and reduce your crop- 

 ping. Instead of a four-shift course, you would have 

 to put it into a six-shift course, or possibly an eight- 

 shift course; you would have to reduce your labour. 



10.991. There is one point in connection with these 

 figures shown in paragraph (6) that I wish to ask 



you about. It gives uheat at 504 pounds per quarter ; 

 barley, 448 pounds per quarter; and oats, 3t36 pounds 

 per quarter. Then if you turn to a leaflet from the 

 Board we have different weights: wheat, 480; barley, 

 400; and oats, 312? Yes. Those are English weights 

 :ii]<l the others are Scotch. These are the weights 

 we always sell our grain to. 



10.992. Would there be any serious difficulty in get- 

 ting these figures uniform throughout the country? 

 I would be very pleased to see them uniform, and I 

 think they ought to be made uniform. 



25831 



10.993. Mr. Thomas Ueiulerson: Mr. Mercer, I 

 think you said that you had between 3,000. or 4,000 

 individual members in your Chamber. What class of 

 individuals are represented? (Mr. Mercer): They 

 are almost entirely farmers. 



10.994. What do you mean by almost entirely? We 

 have a few factors and a few lairds; and I should say 

 at least 90 per cent, would be farmers. 



10.995. Have you any women ? A few. 



10.996. Are they representative of the farming in- 

 terest? Yes; they are interested in agriculture. One 

 or two of them are actually farming themselves. 



10.997. Not all of them? Not all of them. 



10.998. So to a certain extent you are a non- 

 agricultural body? No, we are not that at all. One 

 or two wives of our members have become members. 



10.999. How many Show Societies and other 

 farmers' organisations are associated with you? I 

 cannot give you that at the moment. 



1 1 .000. How is the Chamber governed ? How are 

 your directors appointed? The directors are ap- 

 pointed in each district. The country is divided into 

 so many districts, and a portion of the directors is 

 appointed by the districts. The rest of the directors 

 are appointed at a general meeting. 



11,001-2. I suppose your statement here about the 

 Chamber approving of the Corn Production Act policy 

 :so far as the guaranteed prices of cereals are con- 

 cerned, refers to approval at a general meeting of the 

 Chamber? I think that was approved at the general 

 meeting. 



11.003. Might I ask you if there was any opposition 

 to the approval of the policy? Yes, there was quite 

 a discussion on the matter. 



11.004. There was more than one point of view 

 expressed at the discussion? Yes; I think there were 

 one or two points of view expressed. 



11.005. Was there a point of view of direct opposi- 

 tion to the guarantee policy expressed? I do not 

 think there was any vote on the question. It was 

 more a discussion, and I could not say there was. 



11.006. There was no amendment moved? No; not 

 according to my recollection. 



11.007. May I ask, was there a motion moved? I 

 do not think so. 



11.008. You said, Mr. Armour, in reply to Mr. 

 Edwards and some other of the Commissioners, that 

 you apprehended some trouble from the operation of 

 the Education A^t? (Mr Armour): No; not any 

 trouble. 



11.009. I mean some trouble with regard to fitting 

 in with the new requirements? Yes. 



11.010. That is not in operation yet, is it? No. 



11.011. You know, of course, that the Act specially 

 provides that before it is put into operation in dis- 

 tricts, the local industries will be consulted and their 

 needs met? Yes. 



11.012. You know, also, that you have full oppor- 

 tunity of making the conditions suit your particular 

 district as far as possible? Yes; we have certain 

 latitude. 



11.013. So that seeing that you do not object to 

 education in itself, and you want to give the boys 

 a chance, the amount of latitude you are going to 

 get will probably meet you to a very considerable 

 extent? We may be able to work it in, and I hope 

 we shall be able to work it in ; but at the same time 

 what we maintain is that it will add to the cost of 

 production. 



11.014. The tendency, of course, will probably be 

 in that direction, but the amount of latitude you are 

 getting and the opportunity for local consultation 

 should. I think, reduce that? I know we will possibly 

 get all that to fit in. and we will have to; but at the 

 same time it will interrupt tho work at the farm, 

 and it will add to the cost of production. 



11.015. Of course you have only two boys, so it will 

 not very seriously affect you? Sometimes we have 

 more. 



11.016. What is your maximum? I have sometimes 

 had three, or four boys. 



11.017. They may not be under any obligation to 

 attend these classes? They will be when the time 

 comes. 



11.018. You said in reply to another Commissioner 

 that in your opinion 13 wag the best age possible for 



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