IJ.'YAI. r.>MMI>MiS ON AGK1CULTUBE. 



, 1919.] 



MK. H. G. HOWEI.I., F.C.A. 





ll.l.'.r. Alw> the method adopted khows a curious 

 rvtult with regard to the profits ou 140,428 acre*. A 

 profit is fthitwn by tin- method of i'l!Ni.."i. - J. but that 

 hguru w arrived at by writing up capital values. 

 The*e values ha\c li-n written up JL"-'17.1M>9, BO 

 that without the writing up of capital values by tho 

 uicili.ul adopted a IOM in shown I' I cannot say to 

 what extent capital values have been written up. 



ll.l"--. Dul any of the farmers attempt to ithow 

 what the cosh profit n- Von mean ilu< excess re- 

 ceipU over the payments for the \< 



11.159. Yea?- \\o have, that in" all cases. I would 

 not call it profit. I would call it excess of receipts 

 over payments. 



11.160. t'fcrtirnmn : If I may supplement Mr. 

 Parker's question, do the farmer's statements show 

 what profit they have made on the farms independently 

 of any increase in the valuation of their assets, such 

 in' teas.' not arising from additional stock but from 

 the re-valuation of the existing stock of the previous 

 year." Assume that the farmer re-valued his cows, 

 or his horses, or his implements, or any other of his 

 assets, and put a larger price on them than existed 

 in the previous year that would swell the nominal 

 profits but it would not swell the cash profits, whereas 

 if he had saleable material and took his sale profit 

 and his debts into account you would get a real cash 

 profit. Mr. Parker's question was: Have you in the 

 returns from the farmers been able to differentiate 

 between what is the real cash profit and what is the 

 profit oi' loss arising from rc-valuationf No. we have 

 not been able to do that, that is practically impossible 

 to do, I think ; it would depend upon the way the 

 valuation was made at the beginning and end of the 

 year. I have taken out some tables which are in- 

 cluded in the information whi"h is now on its way 

 here to .show you the average value per head adopted 

 in valuing the live stock at the beginning and end 

 of tho year. May I read out a few of the figun 



11.161. 1 cannot .stop you reading thorn out, but 

 as we have not got them before us I cannot see how 

 we can very well ask you questions with regard to 

 them. You can hand them in for consideration? 

 They are on the way over now. 



11.183. Tho Commission has pa -sod a very .strong 

 resolution not to cross-vxaiuino witnesses- II|KHI any 

 information that lias not been before them for so 

 many days? As a general .statement the values per 

 lioaif are greater at the end of the year than at tho 

 beginning. I have proved that. 



11,163. Mr. yicholU: Is it a fact that all of the 

 fanners that you wrote to for their accounts ha\e been 

 guaranteed secrecy with regard to them?- Yes, they 

 have. 



11,101. These accounts you give are really for one 

 tin- year I'.M 1 -' Yes. 11 good many of tho 

 accounts i ml at Michaelmas, 1918, or the following 

 months up to March or June. 



11,165. 31 r. Lfiinanl: 1 notice from the Summary of 

 Accounts you have submitted to u.s that it appears 

 tho rate of profit on farms in Scotland amount 

 highw iH'iTciitagc on the capital employed than is 

 obtained on farms in Kngland and Wales P Yes. 



11, IM. You have not any explanation to offer of 

 that, have you?-- No, 1 have no general explanation of 

 that fact. 



11,167. The difference applies, docs it not. not only 

 to tenant tanners Init also to owner oci -npiers, and in 

 the c.'so of home ami similar farms? L> that stated 

 in any particular taM.-:- 



11,1(58. Yes, it is in paragraph 3? It applies to 

 tenant fanners, does it not? 



11,100. Yes, and also to owner occupiers, mid to tho 

 ease of home and similar farms a.s regards the profit 

 per cent, on capital? Yi*, the profit per cent on 

 capital i> greater in all cases as regards Scotland. 



11.170. The profit per acre is only greater in Si "t 

 land in regard to the tenant fanners!' Yes. 



I'hn lire only figures which lie has 



collected and for which ho takes no responsibility 

 what.- i II. ,.! itiially says so, because no. has not 

 audited them. 



11.171. .l/i l.'nniinl: Am 1 right in understanding 

 from your table F tha,t the amount of wages paid 

 per a<ro averaged 2 7s. 3d. on the Scottish tenant 



farm* as compared with 2 Os. 3d. ou the farina in 

 KngUnd and Wales? That is so. 



11.172. It does not appear from these figures that 

 the higher profits made by the tenant farmer* in 

 .Scotland are due to a lower wages bill. 



Cluiiriittin : Ho cannot answer that question. 11. 

 uly colltvU-d the figures. The Scotch figures, may- 

 lie wrung and the Knglish figures may be wrong. The 

 figures speak for themselves. Ho cannot say any 

 more than " There is the figure." 



11.173. J/r. I.' n nn fil : 1 was only asking him 

 whether 1 as right in interpreting the figure. I 

 out?--The number of Scottish accounts is altogether 

 too small to draw a deduction of that kind from, 1 

 think. 



11.174. Mr. I.diujfurd: As you are not responsible 

 for the figure* 1 agree it is not very useful to cross- 

 examine you upon them. 1 therefore would like to 

 know if some of these farmers who have sent in 

 accounts to you, which you have licked into admirable 

 shape, would be prepared to come hero and sup|>ort 

 their own individual figures? 1 should think that 

 about four to six have said, in sending in their 

 accounts, that they would be willing to appear before 

 the Commission. 



11.175. l'h'inii:'in: Did you ask them if they were 

 willing?- No, 1 did not. 



ll,17o. From your knowledge of the.se gentlemen 

 who have .sent in accounts, do you consider that they 

 would be likely to come forward and give evidence it 

 asked to do so?- I should think, speaking quitu 

 broadly, that a small minority til them would be 

 willing. 



Mr. Longford: I think it would be \oiy useful, Mr. 

 Chairman, if you wore to ask Mr. Howell to com- 

 municate with them and sec whether we can get them 

 here with their own accounts and then own balance 

 sheets. That would be very much more useful than 

 questioning Mr. Howell upon them, although 1 think 

 that the information he ha.s presented to the Com- 

 mission, if 1 may say so, is invaluable. 



Chairman: A note will bo taken of that if you will 

 make a proposition to the Commission later on. 



11.177. Mr. I'ruiser Junes: In collecting these 

 figures you have been in touch no doubt wkh the 

 producer and the middleman, and possibly the re- 

 tailer. 1 want to find out what tho position of the 

 middleman is a.s compared with that of tho producer 

 and tho retailer in the milk trade, and how far the 

 producer is handicapped by pawing his milk through 

 the hands of the middleman:' 



ClKiiniHin : 1 do not think Mr. Howell can toll you 

 that. Ho is only an accountant, you see, although I 

 n|M>logist< for saying so? I am afraid 1 cannot answer 

 that question. 



11.178. Mr. 1'ru.iscr Junes: Cannot you ay from 

 tho accounts which have como Ix'fore you whether the 

 middleman takes u smaller profit than the producer .- 

 It might not lie apparent, on the faoi of the accounts 



who was a. producer nd who a.- a middleman; tho 

 same man might bo lioth, for example. 



11.179. Does tho bulk of tho milk pass through the 

 middleman or docs it go direct to the retailor? 1 am 

 afraid 1 could not answer that. 



11, ISO. As an accountant would you mind telling 

 Ufi your personal view as to tho raining of stock at 

 market values, when tho farmer does not. propobo to 

 go out of business. Do you advise in that CHM- the 

 taking of stock at cost or at market price? At cost 

 prioi 



11,131. Mr. Thomas Henderson: I should like to 

 ask you if you can give us any information with re- 

 gard to tho geographical distribution of those figures 

 in Scotland;- Yes. 1 ran give you that information 

 and for Kngland also if neoessarv. 



11.1^. .1/r. H,hnn;h: And Wales t^.r 



11.1x3. ('hairiiuin: 1 think you were kind enough 

 to nay \<>u would send in further information? Yes. 

 I shall bo glad if the Commission will indicate any- 

 thing further they would like. 



I MM. Mr. ./. M. II' nil' nun : I have not had tinio 

 to master the whole of tin-so figure I only 



had yesterday to go through llicni. In arriving at 

 the results have you taken anything into account for 

 the farmers' house accommodation? We have spoci- 



