76 



K.'VAI. I'nMMl.-M.iN ON U.KICI I.TI'UK. 



J.I Xspttmbcr, 1U19.] 



Mi:. JAMKX I>ONAI.IWON. 



'd.lllilllirll. 



I 



i. in.uk> 111 in.' statement you have put in. 

 n pointing out that the economic future of agri- 

 culture is a matt, i moio ..f jmlitical thnn of industrial 

 iiiicwrii \oii go on to iiH-ntioii in par.igiaph 11 sonic 

 f the considerations which you think might . on. . n 

 ably be raised from the political point of view and 

 .it. i interring to the Wages Bonnl you -ay that the 

 Nation might under certain conditions lose in healthy 

 manhood at a time when the creation of an Al 

 population is the concern of all who have iU true 

 welfare at heart. What exn< tl\ had you in mind 

 wlu<n you .isod that phraso alMiut healthy manhood? 

 The more men you employ on the land wo consider tin- 

 healthier population you' mil have. \\e think that 

 thf country, taking it on the whole, i-an claim to li:i\<> 

 a healthier and perhaps a stronger population thnn 

 the imn-. With regard to the ideas set forwai.l 

 li..if. if you are going to say to agriculture: 

 must adopt your own system and piiiMie your own 

 ways," then we say " We are quite prepared to do 

 MI. but we shall not be al.le to employ so man. 

 on the laud and we shall not be able to give you 

 great production." 



11.299. Have you got any tests of national physical 

 hisilt h or physiological tests or statistics you would 

 like to put before us in this connection ? No, I have. 

 fo statistics at present, but I can refer you to an 

 incident that took place during the war in one of 

 our agricultural towns where 18 out of 20 townsmen 

 nt the Medical Board failed to class themselves as 

 Al I admit this was an exceptional case that morn- 

 ing. They were followed by u number of agricultural 

 labourers and I believe all that failed to pass Al 

 wero 5 out of 20. 



11.300. This is a matter of such great importance 

 that if you could collect definite statistical informa- 

 tion bearing on that point I am sure it would be of 

 value to this Commission. In the next paragraph 

 you say: "War costs are likely in large measure 

 to be permanent." What are the reasons which lead 

 you to say that? When this was penned we had 

 labour in mind. I wish to make a .statement with 

 regard to that. Of course, you understand that 40 

 per cent, of the costs that have come before you 

 are swallowed up by labour and we farmers know full 

 well that in the pre-war period and for a long time 

 previous to that our men were underpaid. It was a 

 reproach to the farmer. We felt it, but at that 

 time we were in a position in which we could not pay 

 them more. We do not want to go back to that ; 

 the very last thing a farmer wants to do is to ask 

 his men to po back to the iow underpaid state of 

 affairs which existed in pre-war times. What we are 

 out for is that the labourer should be paid a wage 

 commensurate with what would be paid to him in 

 any other industry. We have not forgotten the fact 



that from 1880 to 1890, that period of terrible de- 

 ion in the agricultural industry, these men stood 

 by as unflinchingly and unmurmuringly, and if any 

 HUccess is to come to agriculture through this Com- 

 mission having sat we feel that we should liko to take. 

 our lal>ourerR with us and that they should share in 

 our success. 



11.MO1. Your anticipation of the future 

 agriculture is based upon your view as to what the 

 future amount of agricultural wages will be? 

 Largely . 



1 1 .:!_' :i You go on to say " It can only be a ques- 

 tion of time In-fore war markets break." Would you 

 .IK| that statement a little!' I do not think it 

 wants very much expansion. We, as practical men, 

 .fraiil that prices will sooner < Iat4-r fall and 

 we have liv.il through a period of low prices in tin- 

 pact. With regard to war price* breaking it will 

 not Iw wry long In-fore we have more shipping; there 

 is no doubt about that. In the countries in the 

 middle part of Europe that have been devastated by 

 I ho wr it will not IN- long before agriculture is 

 auain in progress. HII-M.I is the only black spot 

 at pies'-nt. but by and by .-be will be producing more. 

 Then you have lieu countries brought ill Mich as 

 M. oputnmiu and Egypt and large tract- of India 

 and in the A i '^public. All those have I,. . n 



brought in ami those count i i- .~ nil! ha\i> a definite. 

 bearing in nohieing the pii.e of agricultural products 

 in tho future, principally cereals. 



Il.:i04. You say: 'The .Nation must see t 

 thai when the farmer has taken all possible st-| 

 organise his business so that wasteful anil inefficient 

 1- arc eliminated, he- can then get a fair icluiu 

 on his capital." That seems to throw the. r] 

 bility for the inefficient organisation of farming U|HIH 

 the farmers themselves? -I do not take it so. I/ord 

 Lee has just issued a statement to the Agricultural 

 Executive Committees it was only in last week's 

 pap. -i iii..i tin;, an- to speed up the process by which 

 the least progressive farmers should be made more 

 progressive ami eliminate the wasteful mm altogether. 

 From that it seems to me that I/ord Lee has taken 

 it upon his own .shoulders to see that farmers an 

 speeded up through the. Committees. 



ll,;Vi. That may be a very good ideal, but can you 

 suggest a way by which the Nation M itself 



that the farming community have taken all po-sjhli- 

 steps to organise the agricultural industry? I' 

 have been against us in the past and if that is going 

 to be the case in the future we should certainly hav 

 to do as this statement here points out. We may 

 be forced to do it in the future; that is the fear 

 which is before farmers at the present time. 1 <! 

 not think you are going to do anything towards it by 

 smallholdings. 



11,306. You suggest that the Nation should provide 

 that the farmer should get a reasonable profit on 

 condition thnt the farmer supplies certain requi~ 



r 



11,30". Can you formulate any policy by which a 

 certain proscription should be laid down for the farm- 

 ing community with regard to efficient organisation 

 and management? As soon as we get some idea 

 from the Government of what their wishes are \\ 

 prepared to help you a.s much a- we ran with regard 

 to suggesting a policy, but until we hear what tin- 

 Government propose to do I am afraid we cannot help 

 you in regard to policy. I have no instructions to 

 k with regard to policy to-day. 



11, SOS. Dr. Douglas: In reference to what you have 

 just said you are not advocating any particular 

 policy? Not to-day. 



11.309. Are you prepared to do so at a later .-; 

 At a later stage we are. 



11.310. At present you are sin, ply (minting out what 

 you believe will take place if nothing be done to 

 modify the situation ? That >is so. 



11.311. In your ninth paragraph you .speak of what 

 will take place if nothing is done. Do you conceive 

 that the process of putting the land back to grass 

 will be a rapid process? -It will be more rapid I 

 think beciiisf of the points I enumerated before in 

 answer to the previous questioning on account of tin- 

 conditions which have been brought about during the 

 war. 



11 .312. As compared with last year I find that there 

 is a not reduction in the corn areas in England of 

 M.'l.OOU acres and in Scotland 113,000 acre V 



11.313. The reduction of the area under ]x>l: 



in England amounts to 167,780 acres, and in Scotland 

 to 14,947 ncrcs as compared with the year I'.M'v ('"' 

 irs|>oiidiug with these reductions thore is an in. 

 ot lli'J.7-H)) acres of clovei and rotation gra.sses in 

 England, and in Scotland an increase of 45,329 acie~ 

 Arc these the kind of results that you have in view' 



Those are the things that, will occur only they will 

 be accelerated if any guarantee is withdrawn. At 

 the picse:il moment e have a guarantee, lull it is 

 the fear of nli.it may Irippun in tho future that is 

 bringing those results about now. and through no 

 definite policy being put before us. 



11, .'ill. That is the sort of result you ant.icipaii-:- 



That is the result, only it \\ill he accelerated if -m 

 definite guarantee is given to us or if even tho 

 i;intec which we have now is withdrawn. 



II.. (!.">. The extent of that result does Iiot surpri.so 



you!' Not :it all. That is the fear that far s 



iiave. You must remember that farmers have not 

 got rid ol the fear of what happened in the 'nineties 

 If the man who lived in the 'nineties has died he 

 landed i! on to hi.s son. They had a terrible times 

 then. I daresay you know that, landlord and tenant 

 together during that awful period of depression lost 



