MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



85 



23 September, 1919.] 



MB. JAMES DONALDSON. 



[Continued. 



cultivation, by the farmers:' Yes; you mean 

 by Executive Committees: 1 



11.561. Yes. It did not seem to me as if the 

 guaranteed prices gave the farmers very much con- 

 fidence? I can speak as a member of an Executive 

 Committee, that that was due largely to the season, 

 if you remember. I can remember the season very 

 well, and I can remember perfectly well what hap- 

 pened in my own county. We had a very wet time 

 and a very dry time. When the land was broken up 

 in order to put it into corn, the drought immediately 

 following it was responsible for a great deal of that ; 

 and among that 90,000 acres, you will find it was 

 not planted. 



11.562. What I would suggest to you is, do you not 

 think that a long view is really contained in Part IV. 

 of the Act, rather than the guaranteed prices? I 

 have not the Act before me. 



11.563. I mean the compulsory powers of Part IV. ? 

 I am not going to enter into policy at all and say 

 it should or should not be given ; but I take it, if you 

 are going to have a guarantee given, you must have 

 those compulsory powers; and we, as progressive 

 farmers, would not hesitate at all to say use them. 



11.564. If the farmers withheld their sowing of 

 wheat this winter, if they did not get the price they 

 expected, would not that be a form of direct action? 

 You will find that the farmer, as a rule, would not 

 to any extent. That is my personal opinion. 



11.565. Do you seriously state that the Prime 

 Minister made a distinct promise to the farmers? 

 I do. 



11.566. Can you quote his words? I have not got 

 them here. I think everybody in the room knows that 

 promise, or has seen it. 



11.567. You do not think the farmers would with- 

 hold their hands from sowing if they did not get the 

 guarantee they expect? Not for this year, because 

 they rely upon the promise. They look upon it as a 

 promise. 



11.568. You seem to imply that the farmers require 

 more confidence; but no one put this question to you 

 which was put to several other witnesses : Do not you 

 think it is a sign of farmers having confidence in the 

 future prosperity of farming, that they are buying up 

 so many of their farms? No; I should rather say 

 that this is an emergency measure because they are 

 being turned out, and would very often be left home- 

 leas. I do not think the farmer at the back of his 

 head is thinking he is doing the right thing by buying 

 his farm at the present moment. 



11.569. I put it to you, if he has been making a good 

 deal of money during war-time, which I think most 

 farmers honestly admit, he may be in a position to 

 retire? I do not think many are in the position to 

 retire unless they are large farmers. Small farmers 

 certainly would not be. 



11.570. You seem to be satisfied with the farming 

 done in this country, as a rule. Are you aware that 

 the Board has issued a statement saying there are two 

 counties in England so badly farmed that they are 

 unable to put any demobilised officers on any of the 

 farms in those two counties? That is a very serious 

 state of matters and wants looking into. 



11,671. Are you also aware that a large farmer, 

 a Scotchman like yourself, has given evidence here 

 that a great many English farmers could increase 

 their output of wheat from 3 quarters to 6 quarters? 

 I cannot be aware of that, because I have not had 

 an opportunity of looking at evidence. 



11.572. Mr. J. M. Henderson: You say in para- 

 graph 3 that the National Farmers' Union desires to- 

 submit evidence as to " the costs of production of the> 

 various foodstuffs usually grown in Great Britain." 

 Then "(2)": "The financial results of farming, in 

 whi'-h it proposes to submit profit and loss accounts 

 and balance sheets of representative farmers." When, 

 do you propose to submit those? They are coming. 

 You will find about 200 statements. 



11.573. Then "(3)": The policy to be pursued in 

 the opinion of the Union, to develop agriculture in 

 the future." Are you going to speak upon that at 

 11? That i* the policy. I do not know who may be 



26831 



responsible for the policy of the Farmers' Union. It 

 may be I or some other persons; but when that 

 has come before us whoever comes will be liable to 

 be cross-examined. 



11.574. But you are here, and we do not want 

 lo bring you here again if we can help it. You say : 

 "The Union has spared neither time nor money in 

 endeavouring to ascertain " watch these words 

 '' and collect the views of its members so as to be in 

 a position to place before the Commission the con- 

 sidered views of the farmers. Who is going to tell us 

 the considered views of the farmers? Whoever brings 

 forward the policy. When the policy comes iorward, 

 you will have the considered views of farmers. 



11.575. Then there is somebody else to speak on 

 policy? Someone else will come to speak on policy. 



11.576. Who will that be? I cannot tell you. 



11.577. You are a, farmer yourself, are you not? 

 Yes. 



11.578. How many acres do you farm? Just over 

 250 acres. 



11.579. And what is the rent? My rental at the 

 present moment is, roughly speaking, 200. 



11.580. Have you kept a balauoe sheet and trading 

 account yourself? Are not you asking with regard 

 to results now? 



11.581. I am speaking to you as a witness? Yes, 

 I have a balance sheet. 



11.582. Are you prepared to produce it to the Com- 

 mission? That is the question discussed by the Com- 

 mittee. We are a Committee of four; and the 

 Committee considered that the members of that 

 Committee would have quite enough to do to look 

 after the balance sheets of the others, and to procure 

 every available possible knowledge we could for you 

 here, and we would be in a better position to estimate 

 the true views of those by not putting in ours. 



11.583. You have not produced it? Exactly. That 

 was the considered opinion of the Committee. 



1 1 .584. Do you not think it is a very serious thing 

 that you are coming here on behalf of a Union, 

 having examined so many men, and you yourself an 

 individual farmer having these figures will only tell 

 us about one side of a question and will not tell UB 

 about the other? That is a matter of opinion. 



11,586. I have formed a very strong opinion on it. 

 Then it comes to this, reading the whole of your 

 precis, that you say in paragraph 9: "That which 

 some men did in England during the depression, 

 that which men have always done in the new countries, 

 can be done by men generally in this country, if 

 the market drives them to it " and so on. As I 

 read it, but perhaps you will correct me if I have 

 taken a wrong impression, the gist of it is this: 

 " We are going to lay certain figures before you 

 and will tell you what our programme is, but, after 

 all, it is not for us. We can do well under any cir- 

 cumstances; but it is for you, the Government, 

 to say whether you are going to subsidise or protect 

 us by guarantees and so fortli. It is reallv your 

 business to put it " ? You have put it very admirably. 

 We say that we can carry on ; but we do not say it it 

 going to be in the national interests, and we do not 

 say it is going to be as the Nation requires. 



11,586-87. The national interests must be con- 

 sidered by Parliament? Yes. 



11.588. Bat your view is: " We do not care what 

 wo do ; we can get along very well without you ; hut 

 it is your business to grow men," and all that. 

 Touching the production of Al men, no doubt a 

 country life is very pleasant and very healthy; but 

 have you seen the medical reports as to school 

 children in the country? No, I have not. 



11.589. I would advise you to look at them, and 

 then you will not be so very sure that it is not to the 

 interest of the nation to send these children to the 

 towns? I gather that is a debatable point. That 

 ngain is a matter of opinion. 



11,690. When the 86,000 farmers talk about fructi- 

 fying the towns from the country, they should look at 

 the Medical Officers' reports of school children in 

 rural districts with regard to intensive cultivation. 

 Have you ever been in Denmark? No, I have never 

 been there. 



11,591. Have you ever read accounts from Don- 

 mark? I have. 



y 3 



