MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



37 



6 August, 1919.] 



SIR HENRX REW, K.C.B. 



[Continued. 



805. Would you agree it is practically impossible 

 to obtain any reliable figures as to the cost of pro- 

 duction until the Costings Committee has been in 

 operation for at least a year? I am not quite sure 

 I no ild go as far as that. In any evidence laid before 

 you, for all I know, you may have sufficient data 

 supplied by individuals to enable you to form a judg- 

 ment. 



806. That would have to be quite a cursory judg- 

 ment, would it not? The percentage of farmers who 

 keep such accounts as would enable us to get from 

 them the cost of production is very, very small? You' 

 know better than I. I should think that is so; but 

 I think Mr. Howell, the Director of the Costings 

 Committee, who has been in touch with a great many 

 farmers throughout the country, will be able to give 

 you a much better guide than I can. 



807. Do not you think Mr. Orwin, of Oxford, could 

 give us more information? Yes, Mr. Orwin has been 

 at it a much longer time. Mr. Howell has been 

 circularising many people, and he also may be able 

 to give you information on that point. 



808. Mr. Rea: You have given us a list of a 

 number of Reports and Returns which the Board 

 have. Do you remember if those Returns show 

 whether the yield,- as a rule, is better on large or 

 small farms? No, I am afraid I do not remember 

 having attempted to work that out; I am not quite 

 sure it is not contained in that Report I have 

 referred you to. It contains a lot of information. 



809. Do the Returns give any guide as to whether 

 there is a tendency to increase or decrease the 

 amount of labour per 100 acres? Of course, I am 

 referring to the period before the war? The table 

 which I have here, which gives the amount of cul- 

 tivated land, the total farmed area and the agricul- 

 tural labourers, for 1881 and 1911, the two census 

 years, which you can only take for this purpose, 

 indicates that in 1881 the number of agricultural 

 labourers per 1.000 acres of cultivated land in England 

 and Wales was 31-7 per 1,000 acres. That is just 

 over three per 100. In 1911 that had dropped to 

 24 per 1,000; that is, practically, 2J per 100. The 

 figures for Great Britain are very much the same; 

 so that, on the face of it, there had been a reduc- 

 tion, although those are broad general figures, in the 

 extent of manual labour employed on a given acreage. 



810. Have you any idea whether that would be 

 made up for by the increased use of machinery? 

 I think the increased use of machinery has been a 

 considerable factor, that is to say, the more wide- 

 spread use of machinery. That was a point which 

 was dealt with in the Report on " Migration from 

 the Rural Districts during the War." 



811. You said you thought that if an artificial 

 method of stabilising prices was necessary, a guarantee 

 was the best system of maintaining it? Looking at it 

 all round, it is the best system I can think of. There 

 may be a better. 



812. Of course, that would have to be justified ; 

 and to justify it, would you consider that the safety 

 of the nation demanded that the land should be kept 

 under cultivation?- The safety of the nation and a 

 sense of insurance. As I said before, it conies to 

 the same thing; that is, less reliance on imported 

 supplies, both from the point of view of security 

 and the point of view of general trade. 



813. That would justify the nation in paying a 

 guarantee ae a sort of insurance premium? Yes. 

 Those seem to me to be the two considerations on 

 which it can be justified. 



814. The actual figures stated in the Corn Pro- 

 duction Act have been several times mentioned ; but 

 seeing the absolute state of uncertainty as to the 

 future when the Corn Production Act was drawn up, 

 do you think we ought to consider the figures stated 

 there, or merely look upon them as being an index 

 principle it was wished to establish? I think that 

 is a matter upon which the Commission must 

 formulate their own opinion. 



815. Mr. Cautley implied that the guarantee on 

 the acreage basis was likely to induce bad cultivation, 

 because there might be a tendency for farmers simply 



2512.-, 



to scratch in putting in corn, without giving it 

 proper working, so that the yield would be less than 

 the actual number of quarters on which they would 

 be guaranteed. But would not this be safeguarded 

 by the instructions of the Board to their Inspectors, 

 that they would have to report cases of insufficient 

 cultivation? That ,we intend to use as a safeguard, 

 and it is being so used. They have definite instruc- 

 tions, that they are not to pass any claim if they 

 consider there is negligent cultivation. As you 

 know, against that prima facie finding there is au 

 appeal to an officer appointed by the Agricultural 

 Executive Committee. 



816. So that that would not be a real danger? It 

 is guarded against to that extent, certainly. 



817. Also, in the same line of argument, it would 

 pay the farmer just as well to grow a small crop as 

 a big one. Would not the principle of standardisation 

 get away from that, and if the guarantee paid on, 

 say, four quarters of wheat compensated him for extra 

 costs of production, suppose he grows six quarters 

 and suppose the market price was 60s. instead of 75s., 

 he would sell the additional two quarters at the market 

 price of 60s.? Quite. 



818. But would not that 60s. or 120s., in the case of 

 two quarters, more than compensate him for the little 

 extra cost of labour he put into his land to grow six 

 quarters, so that he would, in effect, be getting a 

 profit on the additional two quarters? Your opinion 

 on that is better than mine; but I should say it is 

 perfectly correct. 



819. So that really it does give an incentive to 

 cultivate? I think it gives an incentive to grow the 

 best crops. I cannot imagine why a man should re- 

 frain from growing as good crops as he did before. 



820. Dr. Douglas : I want to go back on one or two 

 questions. In answer to questions, you spoke of the 

 increase of transport facilities. That has been made 

 a good deal of recently in public discussion ; and I 

 should like to know whether there is anything 

 definitely in your mind, or known to you, affecting 

 the agricultural situation. You referred to certain 

 improvements, no doubt, but on a small scale, with 

 regard to perishable commodities which are affected 

 by the lack of local transport. Have you anything 



in view as to the main staples of agriculture? No; 

 I am afraid I cannot say I have very definitely. I 

 was thinking more particularly of perishable produce, 

 and things of that sort. 



821. Apart from those it really need not enter into 

 the minds of the Commission? No. I think it is 

 possible there may be some minor improvements made 

 with regard to tha transport arrangements for cattle 

 and dead meat; but, as you suggest, I was thinking 

 rather more of the minor products. 



822. We may really leave that on one side in the 

 main discussion? Yes. 



823. You have spoken about security of tenure, and 

 suggested it would stimulate the application of capital. 

 May I take it from you that you have not in your 

 mind any special scheme? No, I had not. It was 

 put to me as a general proposition. 



824. And with reference to any special scheme, you 

 would wish to examine it on all sides before pro- 

 nouncing an opinion on it? Certainly; I am not 

 prepared at all to discuss the matter in detail. 



825. Then you expressed the view that dairying, 

 simply as an agricultural industry, employed less 

 labour relatively than other types of farming? Than 

 corn growing. If that is the main occupation, I 

 should say it employs more. 



826. But you are referring purely to what I may 

 call grass dairying, are you not? I had that mostly 

 in mind. 



827. You would not say that of arable land? No; 

 I was thinking predominantly of grass country. 



828. So you really distinguish, from the point of 

 national production, between that dairy farm which is 

 carried on by the use of imported material and the 

 dairy farm which is carried on by the home produc- 

 tion of a great part, at all events, of the food of the 

 animal? Yes. 



C 4 



