MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



45 



6 August, 1919.] 



MR. J. M. CAIE. 



[Continued. 



1014. In working out farm wages, I presume you 

 would make allowance for the fact that in Scotland 

 almost universally the farm servant is kept by the 

 farmer. Do you allow anything in his charges for 

 board and lodging F Yes, certainly. 



1015. Have you any figure for that? No, not at 

 the moment. 



1016. In making up such an account, I take it you 

 would have to give credit also for the assessed rent 

 of the living house? I should say so, certainly. 



1017. And the keep of the family which they get 

 off the farm? Everything, I should say, that the 

 man gets in payment, whether in kind or in cash. 



1018. I am speaking of the farmer himself, not of 

 the farm servant? I should point out, of course, 

 that in answering these questions I do not profess 

 for a moment to be a costings expert. 



1019. It does not want an expert to know that? 

 I give my opinion simply for what it is worth. 



1021. You spoke of the Board doing some farming? 



X 68. 



1022. Would that be college farming? No, .1 had 

 not that in mind when I answered that question. 



1023. Is it more in the nature of a demonstration 

 farm ? No, these demonstration crofts are run by the 

 colleges and the Board are financially ultimately 

 responsible for them. What I had in mind when 1 

 answered that question .was that the Board have 

 recently bought one or two farms for the purpose 

 of breaking them up under the new Colonies Acts, 

 which the Board are carrying on. at the moment as 

 a purely provisional arrangement. 



1024. You are not, therefore, in a position to put 

 that forward as a criterion of the profits of farmers? 

 I should be very doubtful as to the value in that 

 respect of the accounts relating to these farms. 



1025. With regard to average prices, you have tho 

 fiar's prices on which the stipends are fixed? Yes. 



1026. Do you really look on those as fairly accurate? 

 We publish them in our statistics. 



1027. Have you taken those into consideration? 

 No, they are not included" in these Tables. 



1028. You have taken the actual local prices in 

 the market? Yes, it has been more convenient to do 

 that. I do not cast any doubt on the fiar's prices, 

 but it was more convenient in making up our Tables 

 to take our own market reports. 



1029. Do you think it would help the Commission 

 if the Board of Agriculture for Scotland there are 

 some very able men on it were to get into touch 

 with one or two farmers and get from them all the 

 facts that it is possible to obtain, so as to prepare 

 something like a balance-sheet such as you have 

 done in this other case? Do you mean, in effect, 

 that the Board of Agriculture should collect evidence 

 on behalf of the Commission? 



1030. We are allowed to get evidence from whom- 

 soever we can, and you are a Government body, and 

 you ought to help us, if it is within your power to 

 do so? I am quite sure, if the Commission wished 

 us to help you in that way, that the Board would 

 do it. 



1031. You have great facilities, and you could 

 easily tackle one or two of tho farmers say one or 

 two big farmers and one or two small farmers and 

 get their figures as fas as it is possible, and criticise 

 them as far as. you are able, and let us have as near as 

 you can what you make the balance-sheet to be. 



1032. Chairman : I think what we should be most 

 delighted to have are the statements of account from 

 farmers. I feel sure that you could get them readily, 

 because you would know the people to whom to 'go, 

 whereas we do not? Yes, I am sure we could help you 

 in that way. 



Chairman: We shall be glad if you would go to 

 some of these people and get statements of account 

 from them and be so kind as to send them here with 

 any comments you have to make upon them, and, in 



case of need, we could ask the farmer to come up and 

 give evidence here, or we might use the statements 

 of account as sufficiently vouched by your having 

 seen them and sending them to us. 



Mr. J. M. Henderson: Thank you, Sir William, 

 thai is exactly whai I want. 



Witness : I am sure the Board will be only too glad 

 to help you in that way. 



1033. Mr. Thomas Henderson: I gather from your 

 reply to Mr. Duncan that you are going to prepare 

 thes typical wages! from 1913 to the setting up of the 

 Wages Board? I do not want to undertake it 

 definitely. I will certainly go into it again more 

 carefully when I go back, and if it is possible to put 

 forward any figures that we can stand up to, I will 

 certainly do it. At the same time, I should be very 

 reluctant to put forward figures that we could not 

 guarantee as accurate. 



1034. Assuming you fail in your efforts, would it 

 be too much to ask you to lot us have your returns, 

 incomplete as they are? I question; whether the 

 Board would put forward any figures that they could 

 not stand up to. 



1035. We only ask the Board to give us such in- 

 formation as they have with regard to wages. 



1036. You have the monthly reports? Yes, we have 

 those, and we extracted all the information we could 

 from them. 



1037. Are you prepared to do that? Certainly. 



1038. Have you any information regarding the 

 migration from the farming districts in Scotland 

 before tho war? Special information of our own? 



1039. Yes? No, I do not think so. 



1040. Do your reporters not give you any informa- 

 tion at all about that matter? They give information 

 in general terms as to tho supply of labour, but they 

 are not in a position, in fact, to give any precise 

 statement as to migration. I know we have to rely 

 on the Census Tables ourselves if we want any in- 

 formation of ithat sort. 



1041. Have you any information regarding the 

 financial results of smallholdings in Scotland, or could 

 that bo obtained? That might be obtained; we have 

 some accounts relating to that in the office. 



1042. Those would be very helpful to us, I think. 

 Do you keep any sort of register of applications for 

 smallholdings? Yes. 



1043. Is there any kind of tabulation you resort 

 to in dealing with those applications? Do you 

 divide your applications into previous occupational 

 categories, for instance? Yes, I believe so. 



1044. Can you tell us how many farm workers have 

 applied for smallholdings ? I think so. 



1045. Would you supply us with that information, 

 please? Yes. 



1046. ] do not want to put any invidious questions 

 to you regarding matters of policy, but it was stated 

 hero, I think, that the policy with regard to the 

 Corn Production Act was arrived at in consultation 

 between the Government and the Board of Agriculture 

 for England. May I ask if it is a fair question 

 whether the Board of Agriculture for Scotland were 

 consulted? That is a matter with regard to which 

 the Secretary for Scotland would be the ultimate 

 authority to approach. I could not answer with 

 reference to that. 



1047. Can you tell us what amount of land has 

 been taken over by your Board under the provisions 

 of that Act? Do you mean for cultivation? 



1048. Yes? We have not done anything under that 

 Act so far. Up to the present we have been acting 

 under the Defence of the Realm Regulations. 



1049. Has 1 any land been taken over compulsorily? 

 Entered upon and taken possession of? 



1050. Yes? Oh, yes. 



1051. Will you let us have that information, too? 



I will. 



1052. Mr. Langford: With regard to Table 5 

 dealing with milk, could you tell us whether this 



