50 



ROTAL COMMISSION ON AQRICULTDUC. 



12 A*y*tt, 1919.] 



MB. II. (i. HOWKI.I., F.C.A. 



liar. I MII dealing principally with the English and 

 Welsh Board. Has that information IN-CII nought by 

 any ronponaible official in connection with that H...H.! 

 No, it has not. What has happened in that I have 

 written to the F.nglish Wages Board, tolling t)i<>in 

 what they proKihly know already, that one of tho 

 oujecU of this Costings Committee waa to obtain ouch 

 uil< rinntion its they might from time to time require. 

 and .i-kin^ them if. wln-n they icquirc an\ -; iiic in- 

 formation, they would let us Know. 



1138. The reason 1 .i^ki-.l that question i 



I want tn knou on wh.it authority you make the state 

 nieiit I quoted from your chief evidence!-- You mean 

 that we aro to require information as required by the 

 Wages Board. Is that your point: 1 



1129. Yes? That is embodied in what I roughly 

 torm our charter, that is, in the particularH drawn up 

 l.y tht Departments of Agriculture and the Ministry 

 of Food jointly when tho Costings Commitu-o was 

 formed. 



1130. My next question is: Are you aware that there 

 was no attempt to correlate the wage fixed under the 

 Corn Production Act with the guaranteed price to the 

 farmers, or that, in fact, in fixing tho recent advance 

 in wages, there was no correlation between the cost of 

 production and prices cbtained? Were you aware of 

 that? I was not. 



1131. Hns your Committee so far obtained any 

 statistical information regarding the cost of produc- 

 tion? No, it ban not. 



1132. When do you expect to be in possession of 

 such information? It is rather difficult to say. It 

 depends on the particular costs that may be required 

 from time to time. For example, if you want the cost 

 of production of cereals throughout the country you 

 cannot possibly get it until a full year from next 

 Michaelmas has elapsed, in order that all tho costs 

 which haxe ocrurred during that year of production 

 may bo properly recorded. If you want the costs of 

 other products they could be got in a much shorter 

 time, 



1133. Could you give us the actual date when this 

 Costings Committee was fdrmed? Towards the end 

 of last year, I l>elieve. 



11:11. And up till now there. is absolutely no infor- 

 mation that is of any use to this OonuniswooP That 

 is so. 



1135. Mr. Smith: Can you tell us what steps you 

 have taken as a Costings Committee to obtain infor- 

 mation? The steps are to some extent indicated in 

 the prefix of cvidenee I have put in. We have had 

 to prepare a scheme for the working of the country 

 generally, that is to say, lay down the general lines 

 on which this information shall be- obtained. We are 

 now on the jHiint of appointing costings officers who 

 will act in the various parts of the country, giving 

 tho necessary assistance to farmers in keeping the 

 coat records. 



1136. Some, farmers kept their accounts previously, 

 did they not? Yen, accounts. I was speaking then 

 of coat records as distinct from the ordinary receipts 

 and payments account. 



1137. Can we take it that as a Costings Committee 

 you have not come across any instance of accounts 

 being kept showing costs of production? Yes, there 

 are cost accounts in a few instances kept up and 

 down the country. There are not many, but there 

 are some. 



11. 'W. Would they bo available for your Department 

 for tho uso of this Commission? A certain numlior 

 of them would, yes. 



1139. Do your Department, in taking these figures 

 of these accounts, take any stops to verify the infor- 

 mation contained therein? In he. cost records which 

 aro to be taken in the future we .shall tak> 

 steps. 



1110. Would you think it fair to say that the in- 

 ii-iic-e of farmers in the matters of accounts 

 might load to errors in the compilation of the 

 returns?. That is quite |>ossiblr. 



1141. And therefore these accounts might h:i 

 be subjected to very careful scrutiny In-fore they could 



be submitted aa anything in tho nature of real 



As I say, they would bo subject to that 

 scrutiny irom wi--k to week, or at frequent interval*. 

 I am referring now to the c.st nxoril-, which will De- 

 compiled in the future, and not t<> Mich as may 

 already exist. 



1112. And at the moment you have no ovidonce?- 

 Xot actually in the possession of tho Committee. \\ 

 can get a considerable l>ody of evidence by request. 



lll:t. \\ill it 1*< part of the work of your Depart- 

 ment, in dealing with these accounts, to go through 

 them with any idea <>i Miegesting economies? Yes; 



that will ti that tin- information 



will show when it is compiled. It will show possible 

 avenues for economy and efficiency. 



1144. Could you give the Commi.sM.m any idea as to 

 the lines you propose to proceed upon? May I ask, 

 have you a model list of headings, or something of 

 that kind, which will indicate the line of procedure 

 you propose to take? As to getting these costs 

 records, do you mean? 



1145. Or the form in which it is best to huve them 

 prepared? Yes. The lines on which we propose to 

 work the country are these, that a certain number of 

 costings offiean arc on the point of being engaged. 

 They will then be placed in various parts of the 

 country, and will assist such farmers as are willing 

 in the various areas to keep costing accounts. They 

 will a-^ist those farmers, and their duty will be to 

 visit each farm periodically and scrutinise the entries 

 that have been made in the interval since their last 

 visit and to analyse those up, put them into pixi|M-r 

 shape, and so on. That will mean at very frequent 

 intervals there will be an actual scrutiny on the part 

 of those officers of all transactions which have taken 

 place on any particular farm. 



114G. Mr. Jtubbins: You speak in your precis about 

 farming accounts you aro supplying the farmers with. 

 Do you put copies of those in? I have not put them 

 in. They aro only in rough manuscript at present. 



1147. May we have them, when it is convenient to 

 the Committee? Yes, I shall be very pleased to do 

 that. 



1148. You say in your precit: "The subjects of 

 the Committee's investigations will therefore include 

 the following information in respect of all types and 

 classes of farms : costs of production, generally ; 

 profit*. " How do you define profits for the. purpose of 

 this investigation?" For the purpose of cost recording 

 aro you moaning? 



1149. No; for the purpose of this investigation 

 which you aro conducting with the view to getting 

 not only records of costs, but financial statements? 

 The profit would be the balance remaining; that is 

 to say, tho surplus of tho income over tho expenditure 

 on that particular farm. 



!!.')( I. You have told us already, I understand, thnt 

 you are not at tho moment in a position to furnish the 

 Commission with reliable data under any of these 

 headings mentioned? No. We could, on request, get 

 tain amount of cost record evidence. Wo have 

 had promises given to us t<- furnish them, if required. 



1151. Then you say, in a note in your /nV/x, under 

 the (leading of "Future Work of the Committee " : 

 " By financial accounts i* meant the nusal accounts of 

 income and expenditure which issue in a yearly profit 

 and loss account and balance sheet." Do you regard 

 an annual valuation .-is essential, or do you adopt tho 

 Inland Revenue view that if there lias been no 

 material alteration in valuation there need not be a 

 fresh one? I think there should bo a valuation each 

 year. 



ll~>2. Upon what basiscost or market value? I 

 think the, basis should be a cost basis. 



ll.VI. Then under: "Financial Accounts " you have 

 an item. You say: '' In comparing financial results 

 as shown by account*, caro must bo taken that profits 

 are arrived at on a common basis, e.g., that all 

 r<>ccipt and credits have been included in each case, 

 and that the nature of tho expenses charged against 

 the profits is also uniform as regards," and then 



