MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



53 



12 August, 1919.] 



MR. H. Gr. HOWELL, F.C.A. 



[Continued. 



1202. And they welcome the wssistance of yourself 

 and your Committee? For that, amongst other 

 reasons, yes. 



1303. Mr. Prosser Jones : You have told members of 

 the Committee that farmers throughout the country 

 are willing and agreeable to give any information and 

 help they can to this Committee. Does that apply to 

 Wales and Scotland quite as much as to England? 

 Comparatively speaking, yes. I mean, compared with 

 the number of accounts that may be kept in Wales, 

 for example, the response has been quite as good. 



1 ; 304. In dealing with arable land and grass land, 

 which of the two methods of farming would you say 

 was the easier to compile an account of? It would be 

 easier to compile accounts of the pasture, I should 

 ay. 



1305. Does your Board propose to make out an 

 annual costing sheet, or is it a two to three years' cost- 

 ing sheet? Annual. 



1206. Would that be fair, in your opinion? It 

 would be fair, I think ; but its full significance would 

 not be shown until the full result of the rotation had 

 been brought out. 



1207. Do you agree with me that your Committee 

 has been set up too late, or that this Commission is 

 sitting too early? 



Chairman: I do not think that is a proper question. 

 Mr. Prosser Jones : I am only asking his opinion. 



Chairman : He could npt give his opinion on that 

 subject ; at least if he gave it it would be of no use- 



1208. Mr. Thomas Henderson : How many costings 

 officers are you proposing to appoint? Twenty-six 

 assistants and four chief costings officers. 



1209. Is that for the whole of the United Kingdom? 

 -Yee. 



. Can you tell us what tho cost of your Commit- 

 tee w ill be when it is in full operation? No. I do not 

 think I am in a position TO state that. 



I '21 1. You are not at such a point as would enable 

 you to say yet? No. 



1312. You say in your precis under sub-paragraph 

 1 2) " Permanent " : "To obtain such permanent infor- 

 mation as to the costs and results of farming as is 

 required by tho Departments of Agriculture and the 

 Agricultural Wages Board." I am not quite clear as 

 to what kinds of information you refer to there. What 

 information would be in the possession of your Com- 

 mit ton which would be helpful to the Agricultural 

 Wages Board:' -I do not know that I am much clearer 

 than yourself on that particular point. 



Chairman : He has already said he has only to get 

 the facts, and those to whom he has to give the farts 

 will make as much use of them as they think desir- 

 able. I do not think he can tell you whether the 

 Agricultural Wages Board will or will not use th 

 fact*. 



1213. Mr. Thomas Henderson: Surely, with defer- 

 ence, when you are going out looking for facts, which 

 are going to be required by another Committee alto- 

 gether, it is as well to have some notion of what sort 

 of facts you are out looking for? I take it we uliM. 

 have, when we have been required, as our charter says, 

 to get specific information for the Agricultural Wages 

 Board. 



121-1. You have not been so required yet?- -Nut 

 far. 



12l-">. Then you say later on in your precis: "Tho 

 farms will be denoted in the Committee's records by a 

 letter or a number, and the information obtained will 

 not be used in any way for taxation purposes." Do 

 the farmers, in your opinion, consider that a sufficient 

 guarantee? In the great majority of cases, yes; not 

 all. 



1216. Suppose your returns, when they are com- 

 pleted, show that the industry, comparatively speak- 

 ing, is profitable, they are not afraid that this largo 

 mass of anonymous information might be used to 

 justify an increase in taxation. Is that a view \\lnYli 

 has been put to you at all? -Yes, we have had that 

 put to us. 



25125 



1217. But in the majority of cases they think it is 

 groundless ? Yes. 



1218. Mr. Green: With regard to getting tho cost- 

 ings of any crop, do you not think the size of tho field 

 is really more important than the size of the holding:' 

 It is an important factor, certainly. 



1219. Will you be able to get any costings data of 

 any practical use to us in time to be issued in a 

 report by the 30th September? Detailed costings 

 data I cannot get much of. A certain amount I will 

 try to get ; but the information I shall be able to get 

 is more of a general financial nature, showing the 

 result of the working of the farm as a whole. 



1220. Who are these costings officers; what class are 

 they drawn from; are they land agents, or what? 

 Laud agents are a numerous class in the applicants. 

 They must be men primarily with a knowledge of 

 agriculture, and also, if possible, men with a know- 

 ledge of accounting. 



1221 . In growing a crop which obviously would not 

 pay, would your costings officers place that amongst 

 your data which will be presented in your general 

 averages, or would you exclude such a crop? No. If 

 that is part of the normal working of the farm, it 

 would come in with the other figures. 



1222. Mr. Edwards : Do you recognise the funda- 

 mental difference between the agricultural industry 

 as compared with other industries arising out of 

 causes beyond the control of the operator or farmer ? 

 Yes; there are very important differences. 



1223. Therefore, in your opinion, perfectly correct 

 accounts for the year, or even two or three years. 

 would practically be of no value as far as any per- 

 manent legislation for the industry is concerned? I 

 agree when you say one year ; but for longer periods 

 the records would acquire cumulative value. 



1224. Has your Committee discussed the principle 

 of the valuation of feeding stuffs, for instance, in the 

 cost of milk production ? I ask that question because 

 I find a tendency to divide up the work of the farmer 

 into certain more or less watertight compartments 

 milk production, corn growing, potato growing, and 

 so forth. Then you work the costings of these various 

 crops independently, as it were. I want to know 

 whether in the case of milk production, for instance, 

 you have taken any principle on which you intend to 

 value feeding stuffs in the cost of milk production? 

 As regards milk they have not definitely decided on 

 this point, I think mainly because at this present 

 time, when they were thinking of the costing of milk 

 there were no coste in existence to base such a price 

 on, even if they wished to do so. 



1225. Mr. Dallas: Your Committee was set up last 

 vear, and we are now in the month of August. Is it 

 not rather a long time to elapse without having some 

 definite data from farmers who have even kept 

 .ummt9 in days gone by ? Apparently it does soem 

 a long time; but although it is true, as I said to Mr. 

 Walker, that we have not actually in the office spgcific 

 data, there is a considerable body of data we caff get 

 for the asking, and which we are in process of 

 asking for. 



1226. Can we have that? 



1227. Chairman: I had a question down, which I 

 may a., well ask now. You said that you could givo 

 in three weeks such data as you possess, or such in- 

 formation as you may obtain from certain farmers 

 whom you could approach. Could you make it less 

 than three weeks? No. I am afraid not. 



1228 May I say then about the first week in 

 September? Yes, about the end of the first week. 



1229. Could you make it a little before the end 

 of the first week in September, so that I could circu- 

 late it amongst the gentlemen on the Commission, and 

 they would have the opportunity of considering i 

 during the week, because we are not going to sit 

 from the 8th to the 15th September?- Yes, I would 

 do my utmost physically to get it by the end ot 

 August but I am not certain whether it could be. 

 done. I want to make the position clear to you now 

 you have mentioned it. Your Sub-Committee has 

 requested the Costings Committee to get in touch witl 



Di 



