HOYAI. COMMISSION UN AGH1CULTUKK. 



I'.'r.'.j 



MR. 1!. O. How ELL, F.C.A. 



farmers whom HI- know uf anil a*k them to nubuiit 

 pit: ticular.s of their accounts. Now these farmers 

 H|I<NII we are in touch uh have promised to guv tin 

 Coatings Committee as MH-h the result of their records. 

 We now itre going to ask them, it they will, to give 

 thu information to the Hoyal Conimi.v.ion. 1 ex- 

 plained io the Sub-Commit tec that it does not neces- 

 umly follow they will be willing to give inforn 

 to the Hoyal Commission rather than to the Costings 

 Committee as Mich : M> that I would not like to 

 guarante at all as to the results of this appeal 

 win. h the Costings Committee is making to UK- 

 far mon. 



1230. If YOU could kindly do that and get leave 

 to submit these accounts under a letter or 11 number 

 stMing the acreage of the land, so as to give us an 

 idea of the sir-e of the farm, the district, or county, 

 in which it is situated, and .such other information 

 of that sort which would enable us to place as much 

 n h.m.e and as much weight on the information as it 

 11 entitled to, without disc -living the name of the 

 individual who supplies it, it might help if you were 

 to assure the gentlemen who supply that information 

 (li.ii it would be as secret as regards names with this 

 Commission as it would be with the Costings Com- 

 mittee. I am not sure that it would not be more 

 secret with this Commission than with the Costings 

 Committee; but I will not express an opinion on that 

 Mibject. If you can kindly let us have it by the end 

 of August I shall be very much obliged? I will do 

 my utmost. 



Mr. J)all(is : This Committee was set up by the 

 Ministry of Food, and I think was set up as an 

 impartial Committee not representing any particular 

 interest. 



Chairman: No: it was set tip by the Board of 

 Agriculture for England and Wales, the Hoard of 

 Agriculture for Scotland, the Department of Agricul- 

 ture for Technical Instruction for Ireland, and the 

 Ministry of Food. All these organisations joined in 

 the setting up of this Costings Department. 



Mr. 7M/cis : Therefore it was set up in the inU-n-.sts 

 nf the community, and not in the interests of any 

 particular agricultural interest. 



1231. Is it not rather curious that one interest in 

 agriculture, the farming interest, the employers' in- 



is very largely represented on tlrs Committee? 

 It is essentially our status that we are an impartial 

 body. If we are not that, we are nothing. 



1232. I am not objecting to the nann-s of the 

 gentlemen, because I know some of them. 



Chairman: If you are suggesting any change, it is 

 not for Mr. Howell. 



Mr. Dallas : I am not suggesting any change ; but 

 I want to show tho Committee is not quite so impar- 

 tial as I think it should he. or might have intended to 

 be. 



Chairman: If you mako a statement of that ort 

 it wfll 1> taken down, but it will nut he a question 

 tn the Witness. Your stat-ment is that the Costings 

 Committee i/i not properly rcprescntat ive ? 



Mi- VaOat: My .suggest ion is this, that the- Co-t- 

 ings Committee Bbould either rcpriwiit. no direct in- 

 in agriculture, or it should represent fairly all 

 tho interests in agriculture. 



Chairman: The names are In fore you. no doubt; 

 hut Mr. Walker in there representing 'labour. 



Mr \\'nlkrr: As a memlwr of the Parliamentary 

 Committee of the T:ade I'liion Congress. I was ap- 

 pointed a member of tho Consumers' Council: and as 

 reproeratiag the Consumers' Council 1 am on the 

 Coraagi Committee. 



Chtiiiiiiiiii : Wo will take a. note of what you say. 

 U'l/nr.vt: Might I make a ...minent at that point? 

 Chaiimnn: I think not. 



1233. Mr. Jhilln.*: You state in your /-riVi* thai 

 recently hnd a conference with largo number of 

 Imdir.i. Them wa a feeling, which is not eml.Hlii-d 

 in the resolution mi'iitioiied bcrc. that the accounts 

 should go to tho agricultural colleges rather than to 



ili-i Agricultural Committees. Would you explain to 

 me why some of the officials ol your Department, 

 i that they ehould go to tho Agricul- 

 tural Committeiw, which are almost entirely 

 composed of employers, rather than to thu agricul- 

 tural colleges:' First, I cannot agree with your 

 .[.it, in, nt At tin- . onlercncxi you mention there, was 

 a certain amount of discussion: hut it centred round, 

 not tho point whether the account* when obtained 

 should go to the agricultural colleges or to the County 

 it i\e Committees not round that point at all. 

 The discussion centred round the point iu> to whether 

 the country officers of this Committee should be 

 .stationed for office accommodation purpotses either 

 with colleges or County Committee*. In either case 

 n would not happen that the accounts went to either 

 of those bodies, becauso they would not They would 

 come direct to the head office of the Conimittco in 



London. 



1234. Mi-, .\fhby: It ix true, ia it not. that four 

 members of this Commission aro also m'-mbcrs of tho 

 Costings Committee? Yes. that is so. 



1235. Is the responsibility for the work of the 

 Committee collective responsibility? V- 



123fi. So that any success or failure is due to the 

 collective work of the Committee as a whole? Yt>e, 

 that is so. 



12.47. With regard to the duties of the Comm 

 they were entirely predetermine! by the Departments 

 which agreed together to set up the Committee? 

 Yes. 



123S. And the Committee, itself is in no way respon- 

 sible for the directions as to duties? No, that is so. 



1239. In your evidence-in-rhief you stale that the 

 information that you may obtain may lie of value 

 from the point of view of the national policy and 

 from the |x>int of view of private financial policy of 

 c.ich individual farmer. Is it true that in tho future 

 you expect your work to be of rather more imporU 

 .nice as regards tho financial |mlicv of the individual 

 farmer than as regards public policy ': Yes. that is 

 &0. 



11! 10. Do you agree that some method of obtaining 

 detailed statistics is absolutely essential ai tho 

 moment and for the future? It is undmihtedlv, I 

 think. 



1'Jll. Do you also agree that the method of costing 

 is the onlv method of obtaining those statistics? 

 Yc<. 



1212. So that it i-: essential for the future well 

 l>einp of the industry that \\oik of this haracter 

 should be done by somebody ? Yes. 



1213. And that it could only be done efficiently by 

 some public authority: 1 Some body quite impa'rtial 



in its aim and standing. 



1211. Have you made any study of the estimates 

 of costing and the n-siilts of costing conducted by 

 public- bodies in other countries, as. for instance, in 

 the I'nited States:- I have to some extent ; I have- 

 lead a good many of their publication-.. 



121"). Is it within your knowledge that a good 

 drill of the- food control work, thai has n-iently been 

 done in the I'nited State-, has In ,-n done mii<h more 

 efficiently than that in this country, simply l>. 

 they have pursued a policy of obtaining financial 

 records of farms for some years? I was not aware 

 i f that. 



12l(i. Turning In a question asked bv Mr. l.angford, 

 I undcrsto:*! you to say that if in the course of work 

 you IV-uiid res, ilt-, to 'the effect that farmers were 

 growing unprofitable crops, your Committee would 

 advise them not to grow them I- not it true that 

 the duty of advising farmers would rest with the 

 I! aid of Agriculture and not with the Commit! 

 1 think that may In- so. I do not Know that there 

 h ; ' v hei n -,\ limit set in that particular direction to the 

 of the- Committee. It might naturallv follow 

 iry result of such work as the Com- 

 mittee did. 



1217. Hut does not it follow, from \ <, in 



I understood you to make, that the application of 



