84 



KOVAL COMV (iUHTI.lt UK. 



ruMl, 1919.] 







would liain that object: Agriculture is our 

 industry. We run pr.xluct* froni our own resource* a 

 largo amount ! the food \\liuli HI- \uinl. and if the 

 farmers ami workers Combine to get tlu> iimxiiniiiu out 

 of the land, we oould break any torcign meat trust 

 or any other trust that tried to domiimtt tlu< food of 

 th country. During the war we increased our pro- 

 duction of food coiisidcrahlv, and I have no doubt 

 at all that we rould go on doing so supposing every 

 one realised the absolute necessity <>i tins course. , 



1974. Your predecessor, Sir Daniel Hall, admitted 

 that he could never understand the fanners of this 

 country conducting their business on the unsatis- 

 factory lines on which they were now conducting it 

 that is, on the yearly tenure system. Do you 

 think, aa a scientific man, that it is really |K*ssible to 

 increase the production of the land of this country n 

 auch a system of farm tenure as that!' I do not think 

 the farmer is affected very much by what might be 

 called these political considerations. The farmer is 

 not really very much of a politician, and so long as 

 he thinks he "is reasonably safe for a year or two 

 he is quite content to go on. 



1975. Yes, but what about the nation, and what 

 about getting the greatest . mount of production out 

 of the land that we po<-sib:y can;' Agriculture is not 

 conducted, of course, on strictly commercial or busi- 

 ness lines. There are all kinds of lungs done between 

 land.ords and tenants o-pecia !y resident landlords 

 and tenants and farmers and their workers which 

 cannot be expressed in pounds, shillings and pern . 

 Agriculture was a flourishing industry long before 

 finance came along, and finance has not dominated 

 agriculture as it has other industries. For instance, 

 we find repeatedly that land is let a/t less than its 

 market value simply because the sitting tenant has 

 long been there, and again in the case of the 

 workers we find that men are kept long after they are 

 useful, simply because they have always been em- 

 ployed on the farm. Established custom stands for 

 a good deal in agriculture, and 1 do not think one 

 can express it all in terms of pure commercial lan- 

 guage. 



1976. Under the system which has prevailed, are 

 you prepared to say that at any time the system has 

 been able to produce the best out of the land of this 

 country? I should say that the type of system would 

 only have a secondary effect. I can recall one or 

 two farmers who have felt themselves hampered by 

 the system, but in the main I think they have got 

 along" fairly satisfactorily. I do not say it is an 

 ideal system, but it works. 



1977. Can you say what was the total produce per 

 acre that we produced in this country in pre-war 

 times? In what peri<xl? 



1978. In the period just before the war? Imme- 

 diately before the war production was going up. In 

 the nineties it was down ; in the sixties is was prob- 

 ably very high Production depends very much on 

 price*. 



1979. I can tell you that the total produce is only 

 about 4 per acre, whereas in lielgium they were 

 taking X30 per acre out of their land. That is the 

 pre-war estimate. What I renlly want to know is 

 whether yon as a .scientific man consider that a satis- 

 factory position!-' I do not think that Ct is a satis- 

 factory figure, assuming that is a correct return; but 

 I do not think yon can directly compare our system 

 with the Belgian system, or that the comparison shows 

 conclusively that the liolgian system is better suitid ti> 

 us than our own. 



1080. 3/r. T)nll<is: You said that a certain min 1 '- 

 mum price would bring se-ond-class and even third- 

 class land into cultivation ?- -Yes ; but there is land 

 that could not he cultivated even with .my minimum 

 price you like to name. That was the experience in 

 Na|>oleonie t : mes when wheat nns very, very dear. 



1981. You have been asked a great deal about the 

 inefficiency of tire lnlx>uror. Hnve \on noticed any 

 change in tho efficiency of the farmer? 1 have 

 noticed that the farmer has put a great deal more 

 money into tin- business than lie had In-fore. During 

 the war the consumption of artificial fertilisers, for 

 iH i. increased vcrv consider -ahK. That has meant 



that the tanner has had to buy those things long in 

 advance of tho time ho got Ins money back. For in- 

 stance. larmeis an- already spending money on corn 

 which they will not sell until early in I'.l'Jl. Things 

 have to be worked :LS far in advance a.s that. lli.it 

 means to say the farmer is locking up capital in his 

 land for that period, and any in ilie price 



of artiticial fertilisers means an increased investment 

 ol capital in his business. Then again a good many 

 farmers are interested nowadays in tractors. 

 also has meant an increasid capital expenditure, lor 

 which the return will only come back slowly. I think 

 that is the direction in which the farmer might be 

 said to have increased his etbciem-y. 



1982. Would you say that the fad that the wages 

 paid in agriculture ha\e 1 ..... n at a miserably low level 

 is one of the factors in determining the (lass of 

 labour that is employed in that industry? Yes, I 

 think so. I think we are .still suffering from the 

 effects of low wages even as far back as the sixties. 

 Men in the sixties realised that they were being paid 

 badly and that large sums ol money were going into 

 the pockets of the fanners, and it aroused in some 

 districts a feeling approaching to bitterness which 

 took a long time to get o\er. and I think that we 

 shall suffer for some time from the effects of bad 

 wages during the sixties and during the nineties. 



1983. 1 was a member of an Agricultural Committee, 

 and during the war we were getting people released 

 from the army, but we found that a lot of men who 

 were released did not come back on to the land. 

 Although we got them released from military service, 

 they refused to come back on to the land. Would not 

 that tend to show that the wages paid in the agricul- 

 tural industry are not sufficient to attract enter- 

 prising and efficient young or middle-aged men? I 

 am not sure that it is entirely a question of wages, 

 because a great many men find town life and city 

 life more attractive. 1 think a solution will be found 

 along the lines of the introduction of machinery. 

 For instance, in our own particular <asp we have a 

 very intelligent young man that we wanted to keep. 

 We found that we could not keep him at the ordinary 

 wage, and therefore we put him in charge of the 

 machinery. We appointed him as mechanic and in that 

 way were able to offer him a considerably higher wage 

 than otherwise, or that would have been sufficient to 

 keep him on the land. I think along lines of that 

 sort one will find the solution of keeping the young 

 men on the land, but of course one cannot argue 

 from particular cases. AVe have got to keep the best 

 of the young men. and I think it can be done in that 

 way. There are, lmwc\ci. a large number of ineffi- 

 cient people that cannot be paid a very high r. 

 wage. In the old days, when the standard rate 

 was about 3d. an hour, one employed on the land a 

 large number of men who were unemployable other- 

 wise. but when the minimum wage ha.s risen to 8d. per 

 hour 8- Id. per hour in our district a number of 

 those sort of men can no longer be employed. 1 think 

 the dilliciilty will always lie with the tail end, and not 

 with the- best nl the' workers. 



1984. Von .stated that not with respect to your 

 regular skilled workers, but in the case of your casual 

 workers you were getting some now who were going 

 knowing nothing whatever about agriculture? That 

 1-. tO. 



I!N.">. That accounts to some extent for some ot 

 the decrease in efficiency? Yes. 



1986. The deficiency in those cases will be bound 

 to decrease as they become skilled, will it not? 

 Yi I, that is so. (3f course I do not want to give 

 tho Commission an impression that I am painting 

 the agricultural labourer in black colours. I am 

 simply giving y<nl the exact facts as they are at 

 the present moment. 



1987. You have some labourers who have been in 

 your employment for 30 years, I think you said? 

 Yes. 



*. It is natural as men grow older that their 

 efficiency should decrease? It does not decrease as 

 much as one would think. That is shown in the 

 record of our horse hours. 



