MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



91 



13 Auyust, 1919.] 



MR. W. T. LAWRENCE. 



[Continued. 



price of the cake that is charged for the full ration 

 amounts to 49. 



2147. And you have worked out that on costs of 

 production the milk can be put on the market at 6rf. 

 a gallon less than where everything has to be pur- 

 chased. Where you take the market prices it equals 

 2s. 7Jd. a gallon, and where you take the cost of pro- 

 duction it is 2s. l^d. a gallon, which leaves a balance 

 of 6d. in favour of the cost of production? Yes. Of 

 course the charge there made for the profit is 66, 

 you will notice. There is nothing put in for profit 

 where the full market price of the food is taken, 

 because that contains the profit of growing; but the 

 profit there is a great deal more than it is on the 

 other table. 



2148. Yes; but this 2s. ld. is what it actually costs 

 you to produce the milk? Yes, that is so. 



2149. So that any profit you get has to be on the 

 same price? No; the 2s. IJd. includes 66. That 

 is reckoning that on 20 cows >a man must have at 

 least 150 a year on the milk produced in the 28 

 weeks, and it is on the milk he makes his profit, of 

 course. The share of the 150 would be 66. That 

 is added in, so that the 2s. l^d. includes a bare living 

 out of the 22 cows. He can afford to sell it at that, 

 if he is satisfied with the 150 a year income. 



2150. What times of the day do you milk ? We milk 

 at six in the morning and five in the evening. 



2151. You begin at five? Yes, we begin at five. 



2152. Are they men or women milkers? It is the 

 cowman and two women except when we have the 

 pupils there. When we have the pupils there they 

 help to milk, but they are mainly in the form of 

 novices. We calculate we should have to have the 

 two assistants milking if we had no pupils at all. 



2153. So that these two women are on late? Yes. 



2154. Mr. Anker Simmons: What is the acreage of 

 the farm ? 130. 



21.")'). What proportion of that is permanent grass? 

 At the present time there is 59 acres of permanently 

 arable land. 



2156. That is 71 left for pasture ? Yes, that is 

 taking the acreage of the farm ; but it hardly comes to 

 strict truth, because there will be. on the other hand, 

 something like three acres taken up in buildings and 

 yards and so on. 



2157. You say 20 cows. Does that mean that you 

 are only keeping 20 cows as dairy cows or that you 

 are taking 20 cows in milk for these ditforont pcTicd.* 

 No, that 20 includes the dairy herd all cows that 

 have calved. 



2158. From your knowledge of them your Cumber- 

 land cows are above the average. I mean a Short- 

 horn cow in Carlisle market would make the highest 

 price? Yes; and it would make a higher price still 

 at Penrith. 



2159. You look for your winter dairy to produce 

 something like two gallons of milk per cow per day? 

 Something like that. 



2160. You would not be inclined to keep a cow on 

 your hands that would not keep the average of the 

 herd up to that? No. Of course so much depends 

 on the time of year that the cow calves. 



2161. On the question of the proper method of 

 arriving at the cost of production of milk, which do 

 you say is the proper method to base it upon the 

 market price or the cost of production price of tho 

 foods that are required? The only definite figures 

 that you have of course are the market price figuros ; 

 but on the other hand the true way of doing it, if 

 one could do it without estimation, would be on the 

 cost of production. 



2162. Otherwise a farmer would get two profits, a 

 double profit, if he charged against his dairy the hay., 

 roots and so on at market price? Yes. 



2163. I mean assuming the price of milk was based 

 in that way. the farmer would be getting two profits 

 if it were based on the market value instead of on 

 tho cost of production? Yes. 



2164. Of course that refers only to the items which 

 the farmer grows? Yes, exactly. Of course a man 

 might expect a little margin over and above what ho 

 ge-te from charging to his cattle the market price just 

 to cover risk. There is always a little risk over and 

 above what there would be if he marketed his crop. 



2165. I see you put the gross cost of producing 

 ' swedes at 20 the acre. Is that based upon the year 



expiring last Michaelmas? Yes. 



2166. So that it would be rather more, by reason of 

 the increase in labour, this year than last year? 

 With us there has not been a great deal of increase 

 in the price of labour this year. 



2167. Then I see you deduct half of the tillage and 

 half of the manure. Is that a fair deduction if you 

 are drawing your roots oft the land? No, I do not 

 think so; but you see we reckon that practically all 

 our roots go back on to the land again ; that is to 

 say our liquid manure is collected in a tank, and it is 

 always pumped over the manure in the covered 

 manure shed and there is very little waste. 



2168. It is a custom that I urn well acquainted with 

 where the roots are fed to sheep on the land. We 

 follow it in the Home Counties. But where the roots 

 are drawn off the land and fed to cows, do not you 

 think it is rather a liberal deduction? It may be; 

 but you see I have put nothing down against the re- 

 sults from the cattle. I have not allowed anything 

 for manure from the cattle, but have charged it to the 

 roots. 



2169. I see your labour works out practically at 8 



per cow per year: 



-Yes. 



21 70. Could you give me an idea what would be the 

 difference between the winter labour and the summer 

 labour; or would there be any marked difference r 

 Yes. I think I practically give it. 



2171. As 95 is to 70? Yes. During the summer 

 time the cowman is on fiold work a great deal. 



2172. Do not you think it is rather a liberal allow- 

 ance to allow 3 people for 20 cows? It is in excess 

 of what we would calculate in the Home Counties. 

 We reckon there that a good milker would milk 12 

 cows. Here you have 3 hands milking 20 cows? 

 Yes; but you have to take this into account, that the 

 cowman has to look after the rest of the stock as well. 



2173. His time is not wholly taken up with milk- 

 ing? You have other stock besides? Yes. 



2174. So that they are not employed full time? No, 

 scarcely that. 



2175! On the question of an all year round price, 

 would yon say that it is at all universal in custom for 

 the man who runs a summer dairy also to mn a winter 

 dairy? Ft is always so with those who are engaged 

 in the milk trade. 'They must do it. Thev would not 

 get anyone to make contracts with them for a 

 summer milk supply alone, if they could not agree 

 to contract for a minimum amount in the winter. 



2176. Was not it your custom in pre-war days to 

 have two contracts, one for the summer and one for 

 tho winter? Yos : but it was generally stipulated 

 that if for instance thoy agreed in the summer con- 

 tract to supply 60 gallons of milk a clay, ono of the 

 conditions of contracting was that they should also 

 guarantee to supply 40 gallons of milk in the winter. 



2177. So that in actual practice the contract was 

 for a year with differential prices as between tho 

 summer and winter? Yos, that .is what it amounted 

 to. 



2178. You are aware of course, that that would 

 not be tho case perhaps in Somerset or Dorset?- 

 It would not bo tho case in the cheese-making dis- 

 tricts at all, of course. 



2179. Then, in a word, you are of opinion that 

 with your system of farmine, and taking the cost 

 of production as the basis of calculation, and allow- 

 ,ing the man 3 a woek in return for his manage- 

 ment, it is possible to produce milk at 2s. 2Jd. a 

 gallon? Yos. 



2180. And that anything he got over that would 

 bo absolutely net profit? Yos; that would be profit 

 over and above the 150 a year. Of course I regard 

 the 150 as the minimum to fix, because it is only 

 10s. a week more than his cowman is getting. 



2181. It is simply an item? Yes. 



2182. Mr. Overman: What is the class of land you 

 have? It is a good strong loam. 



2183. What is the ront you pay for the 130 acres? 

 It is tho property of the Cumberland County Council, 

 so there is no rent paid ; but we arc ratod at 2 the 

 acre. 



2184. What would be the rontal value of the farm 

 (if it were on the market? It would be easily 2 5s. 

 per acre. 



